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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:09 pm 
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Silent But Deadly
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Still saving up for the second stamp so I can file two at once, but wanting to build a multi cal rifle can for .308, 300 blackout, and 5.56 (with the intent of building a dedicated 5.56 later), and also a 9mm pistol can. Wanting to keep both as light and compact as is practical.

Hosts at this point will be an Ar308 with adjustable gas block and standard pistol and rifle length AR’s for the rifle can( subs and supers for the blackout, supers for the .308 and 5.56) and a Glock 19 for the pistol can (probably using subs and hand loaded heavy cast subs mostly)

Leaning towards 17-4 stainless for the rifle can (baffles and tube) or possibly 316 for the tube since I have it on hand (if I don’t just weld the stack together and go tubeless). Probably a straight forward stack of base ported and clipped cones with a brake type mount that could be made for different calibers, but also very curious about the new switchback design and wondering about flipping a few baffles around, so that would lead me back to the idea of a tube with a threaded front cap to be welded after the baffle arrangement was decided.

For the pistol can, I had been planning on K or X type baffles with a cone or two for blast baffles, but it appears there is a lot of success with clipped cones as well so that is also possible. Probably use 7075 or 7068 aluminum and 17-4 for blast baffles. I like the looks of the .45 design that is in progress, but again wonder about the effects of inverting some of the baffles.

Any suggestions or opinions on how to proceed differently are welcome.

I am not a cad user so I will have to draw my designs on graph paper as always, and I have not gotten past the imagining stage yet so no drawing to post at this time.

Who is the current favorite to host images to post on the forum these days? I see photobucket has become a pain in the rear.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:21 pm 
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Silent But Deadly
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Quote:
Who is the current favorite to host images
imgur

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300 blackout form 1: http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=137293

5.56 form 1:
http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=141800&p=955647#p955647


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:19 pm 
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Silent But Deadly
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I saw your blackout can is using K's fishman. I assume you are still pleased with the performance? How do you like it with supers? How does it compare with supers vs your 5.56 can with supers?

I am aware that some companies are using heavy duty k's for centerfire rifle even though they are normally considered to be for pistols, and obviously there are many companies using cones for pistol calibers even though they have in the past been considered to be for rifle cans. I am guessing between the sonic crack of the projectile breaking the sound barrier and the port noise from the action cycling (for a semi-auto) that it becomes difficult to discern the difference in performance between designs until they are on a bolt gun or lever gun. I guess what I mean is, on the supersonic end of things, would you (anyone) agree that we quickly reach a point of diminishing returns from design changes?.... and it is likely on the subsonic end that there might be more room for experimentation?.....thoughts?

My interest I guess would be in reaching the point of attaining good performance with supers (as much as can be expected) and excellent performance with subs for both the rifle and pistol cans. I am, as always, most interested in being as quiet as possible.....so by default I gravitate towards subs when it is practical. For .308 and 5.56 I am just focused on making those rifles more pleasant to shoot with full power loads.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:41 am 
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Silent But Deadly
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I've never fired supers through it. Send me a case and I'll let you know how they sound :)

My k baffle 450 bushmaster can sounds great

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300 blackout form 1: http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=137293

5.56 form 1:
http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=141800&p=955647#p955647


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:37 am 
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Silent But Deadly
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Never have?! I don’t suppose I blame you, there is nothing terribly exciting about supersonic 300 blackout, but it would be interesting to make the comparison even though it wouldn’t really be apples to apples. I guess the only reason I have any supers is just to have another option for deer hunting with the AR pistol during the alternative methods part of the season.

So are you shooting full power loads through your k can in the 450bm?

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:38 am 
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Silent But Deadly
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daviscustom wrote:
So are you shooting full power loads through your k can in the 450bm?

Yes. For deer in south Michigan, we have to use straightwall cartridges 1.8" long or shorter. Its basically a 20 gauge slug.

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300 blackout form 1: http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=137293

5.56 form 1:
http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=141800&p=955647#p955647


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:35 pm 
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Silent But Deadly

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daviscustom wrote:
My interest I guess would be in reaching the point of attaining good performance with supers (as much as can be expected) and excellent performance with subs for both the rifle and pistol cans.


In my experience, the best way to get good performance with both subs & supers is lots of tapered cones.

On inverting baffles, sometimes it has a positive effect, sometimes negative, sometimes nothing discernible. I've flipped the front 6 in my modular Ocelot M around, and it made virtually no difference, would have needed to fire a lot more rounds for meter averages to show a pattern beyond typical shot-to-shot deviation.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:15 pm 
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Silent But Deadly
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I thought given the limited opportunity for experimentation that the inverted baffle thing might be a crap shoot, I was just hoping maybe there was some other activity going on related to that idea.

Lots of cones and a complex brake/blast chamber for FRP was the way I went for my 458 socom can.....I have enough room that I can rearrange the baffles and invert some of the stack to see what happens, but I haven't tried it yet.

ECCO have you experimented with features around the bore to create more turbulence inside the cones you plan to invert? Wondered if that might help the success rate.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:16 pm 
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Silent But Deadly
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I have been thinking maybe I should change my design focus just slightly. Instead of trying to bias both cans toward excellent subsonic performance, I am considering making the rifle can all about quietest design for supers in 308, 5.56 and 300 BO..... and consider the the 9mm can to be for subs in 9mm and 300 Blackout if the 300 BO isn't going to require making the pistol can too heavy. Guessing subs in 300 BO aren't going to require anything over what 9mm would need, but that may be wrong.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:35 pm 
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Silent But Deadly

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daviscustom wrote:
Guessing subs in 300 BO aren't going to require anything over what 9mm would need, but that may be wrong.


There's a bit more exit pressure and heat input, so stainless or Ti baffles would be a good idea, especially with the accompanying higher rate of fire typical of AR use. SS or Ti baffles can be made thinner, though; done right, there's only a 2-3 ounce penalty with steel and it can be a wash with Ti.

daviscustom wrote:
ECCO have you experimented with features around the bore to create more turbulence inside the cones you plan to invert? Wondered if that might help the success rate.


I haven't. I'm happy with 114 dB from a 1x5.5" can.

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