Help making a new silencer

Yes, it can be legal to make a silencer. For everything Form-1, from silencer designs that are easily made, to filing forms with the BATF, to 3D modeling. Remember, you must have an approved BATF Form-1 to make a silencer. All NFA laws apply.

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bac0nfat
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Help making a new silencer

Post by bac0nfat » Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:46 pm

I plan to make my own silencer for a few reasons. I also have a commercially available one, but I it's only 22 and I want to make something that can handle 5.56, 300 blackout (subs and supersonic) 30-06 and POSSIBLY 9mm.

I'm doing this because I want to save money, I want the challenge, and I want to expand my abilities on my lathe a bridgeport milling machine. So far I've done a few random projects that have all turned out great, but they were all either aluminum or delrin. I want to make this suppressor out of stainless for durability, and the option to clean with an ultrasonic cleaner.

My idea is to make a monocore design. I know how to use Autocad and I'm good at deigning stuff and making it come to life on the mill. What I'm not so good at is running the lathe. I can turn down parts to the right OD, and I can bore stuff to the right ID, but I've never threaded anything. Fortunately, I have a friend who can handle the threading part.

I have tons of endmills, many of which are carbide.

So what would you guys recommend for my capabilities?

As for the 9mm thing, I'm not dead set on it. It would be for my F/A M11/9 but I might ended up making a second can for that out of aluminum. But if I could just use the same 30 cal can and bore the hole out a little bigger, I would just do that. Is there a big disadvantage of doing this?

If anyone could help point this noob in the right direction I would appreciate it.

ETA: None of my equipment is CNC, I'll be using a digital readout on the milling machine.

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Bendersquint
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Re: Help making a new silencer

Post by Bendersquint » Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:05 am

bac0nfat wrote:I plan to make my own silencer for a few reasons. I also have a commercially available one, but I it's only 22 and I want to make something that can handle 5.56, 300 blackout (subs and supersonic) 30-06 and POSSIBLY 9mm.

I'm doing this because I want to save money, I want the challenge, and I want to expand my abilities on my lathe a bridgeport milling machine. So far I've done a few random projects that have all turned out great, but they were all either aluminum or delrin. I want to make this suppressor out of stainless for durability, and the option to clean with an ultrasonic cleaner.

My idea is to make a monocore design. I know how to use Autocad and I'm good at deigning stuff and making it come to life on the mill. What I'm not so good at is running the lathe. I can turn down parts to the right OD, and I can bore stuff to the right ID, but I've never threaded anything. Fortunately, I have a friend who can handle the threading part.

I have tons of endmills, many of which are carbide.

So what would you guys recommend for my capabilities?

As for the 9mm thing, I'm not dead set on it. It would be for my F/A M11/9 but I might ended up making a second can for that out of aluminum. But if I could just use the same 30 cal can and bore the hole out a little bigger, I would just do that. Is there a big disadvantage of doing this?

If anyone could help point this noob in the right direction I would appreciate it.

ETA: None of my equipment is CNC, I'll be using a digital readout on the milling machine.
Aluminum and SS are a huge difference! They can't even be compared!

With your capabilities and your requirement for SS I would suggest either K baffles or cones. Pass on the monocore you are going to have a bear of a time on a manual with DRO and will end up with an ate up core.

Remember you can't replace the core yourself so you run a MUCH higher risk on failure with a monocore.

bac0nfat
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Re: Help making a new silencer

Post by bac0nfat » Mon Mar 25, 2013 12:31 pm

Bendersquint wrote:
bac0nfat wrote:I plan to make my own silencer for a few reasons. I also have a commercially available one, but I it's only 22 and I want to make something that can handle 5.56, 300 blackout (subs and supersonic) 30-06 and POSSIBLY 9mm.

I'm doing this because I want to save money, I want the challenge, and I want to expand my abilities on my lathe a bridgeport milling machine. So far I've done a few random projects that have all turned out great, but they were all either aluminum or delrin. I want to make this suppressor out of stainless for durability, and the option to clean with an ultrasonic cleaner.

My idea is to make a monocore design. I know how to use Autocad and I'm good at deigning stuff and making it come to life on the mill. What I'm not so good at is running the lathe. I can turn down parts to the right OD, and I can bore stuff to the right ID, but I've never threaded anything. Fortunately, I have a friend who can handle the threading part.

I have tons of endmills, many of which are carbide.

So what would you guys recommend for my capabilities?

As for the 9mm thing, I'm not dead set on it. It would be for my F/A M11/9 but I might ended up making a second can for that out of aluminum. But if I could just use the same 30 cal can and bore the hole out a little bigger, I would just do that. Is there a big disadvantage of doing this?

If anyone could help point this noob in the right direction I would appreciate it.

ETA: None of my equipment is CNC, I'll be using a digital readout on the milling machine.
Aluminum and SS are a huge difference! They can't even be compared!

With your capabilities and your requirement for SS I would suggest either K baffles or cones. Pass on the monocore you are going to have a bear of a time on a manual with DRO and will end up with an ate up core.

Remember you can't replace the core yourself so you run a MUCH higher risk on failure with a monocore.
Can aluminum be used on on a 30 cal can? If I can disassemble it but it will still work on 30 cal, I don't have a problem using aluminum. I'm about 1000% better on the mill and I'm confident that I can make a decent monocore. But every time I try to mill stainless I burn out bits and it takes forever.

Last question...I have two friends who own fully equipped machine shops with CNC lathes and CNC milling machines, would it be legal to have them manufacture parts of the suppressor, or is that a big no-no?

How about an aluminum monocore with a stainless steel tube?

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Bendersquint
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Re: Help making a new silencer

Post by Bendersquint » Mon Mar 25, 2013 12:37 pm

bac0nfat wrote:Can aluminum be used on on a 30 cal can? If I can disassemble it but it will still work on 30 cal, I don't have a problem using aluminum. I'm about 1000% better on the mill and I'm confident that I can make a decent monocore. But every time I try to mill stainless I burn out bits and it takes forever.

Last question...I have two friends who own fully equipped machine shops with CNC lathes and CNC milling machines, would it be legal to have them manufacture parts of the suppressor, or is that a big no-no?

How about an aluminum monocore with a stainless steel tube?
For a Form1 can aluminum in a 30 cal can is not a smart combo. It will wear out ridiculously fast as well as the safety issues involved.

As you are discovering SS isn't the easiest to mill.

Yes, your friends can produce your parts for you so long as you are present 100% of the time, if you go to lunch? Your parts whether complete or not go with you. You must be in control of the parts at all times.

If you are looking for a 30 cal can stay away from Al.

bac0nfat
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Re: Help making a new silencer

Post by bac0nfat » Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:45 pm

Okay, slight change of plans. I talked to my friend who has a machine shop, CNC lathe, CNC 5 axis machine, the whole nine yards. I'm going to have him do all the work with me standing next to him the whole time. He's an incredible machinist, but has never made a suppressor before and doesn't have the time or desire to come up with his own design. I want to keep it simple for him, but still have a quality effective suppressor. What do you guys think of this design:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPEiHOGCoMs

But scaled up for 30 cal? Also, how much efficiency will I loose by opening up the baffles to use on 9mm (subgun) as well?

Sorry for the all the questions, but I'm totally new to suppressor design.

How much clearance do I need between the OD of the core and the ID of the tube? I was looking at this for the tube:

http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-stain ... ng/=m1aspt (part number 89495K681)

And this for the core:

http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-stain ... ds/=m1atf7 (not sure which one to get, but they sell a "machinable" type which is a little more expensive.

Whatever advice you can give me is greatly appreciated!

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Bendersquint
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Re: Help making a new silencer

Post by Bendersquint » Mon Mar 25, 2013 5:24 pm

bac0nfat wrote:Okay, slight change of plans. I talked to my friend who has a machine shop, CNC lathe, CNC 5 axis machine, the whole nine yards. I'm going to have him do all the work with me standing next to him the whole time. He's an incredible machinist, but has never made a suppressor before and doesn't have the time or desire to come up with his own design. I want to keep it simple for him, but still have a quality effective suppressor. What do you guys think of this design:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPEiHOGCoMs

But scaled up for 30 cal? Also, how much efficiency will I loose by opening up the baffles to use on 9mm (subgun) as well?

Sorry for the all the questions, but I'm totally new to suppressor design.

How much clearance do I need between the OD of the core and the ID of the tube? I was looking at this for the tube:

http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-stain ... ng/=m1aspt (part number 89495K681)

And this for the core:

http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-stain ... ds/=m1atf7 (not sure which one to get, but they sell a "machinable" type which is a little more expensive.

Whatever advice you can give me is greatly appreciated!
The design is pretty poor, you would do better with washers and spacers!

Your tube is WAY too thick, and there are far better sources for tubing than McMaster. .065" is the standard thickness.

I may have some 316L barstock to sell you if you are interested in it, its perfect for what you need.

bac0nfat
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Re: Help making a new silencer

Post by bac0nfat » Mon Mar 25, 2013 5:41 pm

Bendersquint wrote:
bac0nfat wrote:Okay, slight change of plans. I talked to my friend who has a machine shop, CNC lathe, CNC 5 axis machine, the whole nine yards. I'm going to have him do all the work with me standing next to him the whole time. He's an incredible machinist, but has never made a suppressor before and doesn't have the time or desire to come up with his own design. I want to keep it simple for him, but still have a quality effective suppressor. What do you guys think of this design:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPEiHOGCoMs

But scaled up for 30 cal? Also, how much efficiency will I loose by opening up the baffles to use on 9mm (subgun) as well?

Sorry for the all the questions, but I'm totally new to suppressor design.

How much clearance do I need between the OD of the core and the ID of the tube? I was looking at this for the tube:

http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-stain ... ng/=m1aspt (part number 89495K681)

And this for the core:

http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-stain ... ds/=m1atf7 (not sure which one to get, but they sell a "machinable" type which is a little more expensive.

Whatever advice you can give me is greatly appreciated!
The design is pretty poor, you would do better with washers and spacers!

Your tube is WAY too thick, and there are far better sources for tubing than McMaster. .065" is the standard thickness.

I may have some 316L barstock to sell you if you are interested in it, its perfect for what you need.
Thanks! I have a few friends who are into suppressors and we were thinking of having this guy make 3 or 4, all the same. All stainless, 1.5" OD, ~10" long, monocore, 5/8" thread, and bored large enough for 9mm. How much barstock do you have have, and what price?

Also, could you point me in the direction of a better monocore suppressor design that would fit within our needs? Or should we just go with baffles and/or spacers? I know there are a TON of designs on the site but I don't even know where to start.

Thanks,

Chip

bac0nfat
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Re: Help making a new silencer

Post by bac0nfat » Mon Mar 25, 2013 5:56 pm

One other thing. My friend has a Liberty Mystic, which is close to what we are going for. But it doesn't handle full power 30 cal loads. I was thinking we could show that to the machinist as a sample, but have him beef up the design a little bit. What would it need to handle say 30-06? Thicker tubing? Wider baffles? More volume? Something else?

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Bendersquint
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Re: Help making a new silencer

Post by Bendersquint » Mon Mar 25, 2013 6:20 pm

bac0nfat wrote:One other thing. My friend has a Liberty Mystic, which is close to what we are going for. But it doesn't handle full power 30 cal loads. I was thinking we could show that to the machinist as a sample, but have him beef up the design a little bit. What would it need to handle say 30-06? Thicker tubing? Wider baffles? More volume? Something else?
What do you need?

Hours and weeks of reading the forum archives, all of this has been discussed at length on here.

crazyelece
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Re: Help making a new silencer

Post by crazyelece » Mon Mar 25, 2013 7:09 pm

What kind of 9mm are you going to hang a 1.5"x10" SS monocore can on? Probably pointless to worry about altering the design to accomadate that

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Shift1
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Re: Help making a new silencer

Post by Shift1 » Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:23 pm

bac0nfat wrote:
Bendersquint wrote:
bac0nfat wrote:Okay, slight change of plans. I talked to my friend who has a machine shop, CNC lathe, CNC 5 axis machine, the whole nine yards. I'm going to have him do all the work with me standing next to him the whole time. He's an incredible machinist, but has never made a suppressor before and doesn't have the time or desire to come up with his own design. I want to keep it simple for him, but still have a quality effective suppressor. What do you guys think of this design:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPEiHOGCoMs

But scaled up for 30 cal? Also, how much efficiency will I loose by opening up the baffles to use on 9mm (subgun) as well?

Sorry for the all the questions, but I'm totally new to suppressor design.

How much clearance do I need between the OD of the core and the ID of the tube? I was looking at this for the tube:

http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-stain ... ng/=m1aspt (part number 89495K681)

And this for the core:

http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-stain ... ds/=m1atf7 (not sure which one to get, but they sell a "machinable" type which is a little more expensive.

Whatever advice you can give me is greatly appreciated!
The design is pretty poor, you would do better with washers and spacers!

Your tube is WAY too thick, and there are far better sources for tubing than McMaster. .065" is the standard thickness.

I may have some 316L barstock to sell you if you are interested in it, its perfect for what you need.
Thanks! I have a few friends who are into suppressors and we were thinking of having this guy make 3 or 4, all the same. All stainless, 1.5" OD, ~10" long, monocore, 5/8" thread, and bored large enough for 9mm. How much barstock do you have have, and what price?

Also, could you point me in the direction of a better monocore suppressor design that would fit within our needs? Or should we just go with baffles and/or spacers? I know there are a TON of designs on the site but I don't even know where to start.

Thanks,

Chip
You need to decide on a caliber. The tube needs to be marked with this information. Building something to work on an 06 may not work all that well on the 9mm. Different baffle designs for different pressure requirements. I believe there is a limit to dimensional give....can't submit and mark for 22lr and hang it on the 9mm...could cause some grief
"The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms."- Samuel Adams
"LP"

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