Build thoughts for low cost long term builds

[adamhen83]

I started reading here in the "smithing" section beginning with the oldest pages and reading toward the front. That said, I got it with the lathe's..."save money, buy the biggest monster you can, expect to trade child's soul for tooling to go with it". Ok, with all that said and all the "cheap" build ideas out there, I didn't see this but have been thinking about it.

For use on 9mm and .380.
-Use the Maglite tube for my outer tube, no machining or tooling really required right? I mean minus cutting the button hole off and threading (yes on center) that end.
-Mini-lathe for machining baffles. I'm making the assumption that K baffles on a 9mm give me the ability to repair in the event of a baffle strike, whereas a monobaffle won't and is an entirely different set of problems.
-SS blast baffle
-Alum all other baffles.

Questions:
Would the maglite tube standup to the pressures of 9mm factory ammo (nothing +p, just your standard 115 thru 147 grain 9mm) and 380?
Is the maglite tube idea dead as....dead or what? What other pre fab'd material could I use.

I'm not wanting to make money with this, I want to increase my skill sets and maintain a degree of self reliance, so I want to get a mini-lathe. Or am I putting too much stock in K baffles? Should I just go conical washers and spacers in a tube? (Ala Clooney's monumentally boring "The American")
BTW I have never used a lathe

[Bendersquint]

I started reading here in the "smithing" section beginning with the oldest pages and reading toward the front. That said, I got it with the lathe's..."save money, buy the biggest monster you can, expect to trade child's soul for tooling to go with it". Ok, with all that said and all the "cheap" build ideas out there, I didn't see this but have been thinking about it.

For use on 9mm and .380.
-Use the Maglite tube for my outer tube, no machining or tooling really required right? I mean minus cutting the button hole off and threading (yes on center) that end.
-Mini-lathe for machining baffles. I'm making the assumption that K baffles on a 9mm give me the ability to repair in the event of a baffle strike, whereas a monobaffle won't and is an entirely different set of problems.
-SS blast baffle
-Alum all other baffles.

Questions:
Would the maglite tube standup to the pressures of 9mm factory ammo (nothing +p, just your standard 115 thru 147 grain 9mm) and 380?
Is the maglite tube idea dead as....dead or what? What other pre fab'd material could I use.

I'm not wanting to make money with this, I want to increase my skill sets and maintain a degree of self reliance, so I want to get a mini-lathe. Or am I putting too much stock in K baffles? Should I just go conical washers and spacers in a tube? (Ala Clooney's monumentally boring "The American")
BTW I have never used a lathe

Depends on the MagLite tube, most are pretty thick and should be able to handle the pressures. I don't know any other pre-fab'd material you can use. Generally part of doing a Form1 is build the thing entirely yourself.

You read the entire forum and TOTALLY missed the part that you can NOT repair a silencer yourself? There is no self reliance when it comes to silencers, you can make it but you can't fix it.

K's are a good choice, there is a reason why they are used by so many manufacturers.....they work!

If you have never used a lathe I would suggest just buying a can, it will cost you far less time, sweat and blood, not to mention financials.

[adamhen83]

Yes I understand that if I attempt to repair a silencer manufactured on a form 1, that I'll have to complete the form 1 process again and pay the fee again.
As for the form 1 being about building the thing entirely myself...I'm trying to learn here and as a career Soldier with a wife and kids, I can't throw money around to buy equipment with a large enough spindle bore to machine a tube for a 9mm can. I thought learning a bit at a time, incrementally I could develop skills and perhaps one day find the equipment at a price I can afford and take my education further. Telling me I should maybe go buy a can instead of trying to learn something is like telling me not to worry about learning basic car maintenance and just go buy a new car.
If buying a can was what I wanted to do, I wouldn't have come to a silencersmithing forum.

In short. Tube capable of handling pressure? K's or skip the machining process all together and press some washers in to cones and use spacers?

[DMY]

Have you considered doing part of it yourself, like the baffles and the endcaps, and then having someone else do the tube for you? For instance, after your paperwork comes back, you could go out and buy a piece of tube and some round bar for the baffles and endcaps. Make the baffles and endcaps on your small lathe. Then, if you want, have a local machine shop thread the tube and endcaps while you are present with them. That way, you're doing most of the work yourself and farming out the small part that you're not comfortable with.

Of course, I would work this all out beforehand with a machine shop. Find someone that will do it for a reasonable price, and find out how he wants the materials finished (he might want some extra stock on the parts to chuck, etc.)

[DS6]

Yes I understand that if I attempt to repair a silencer manufactured on a form 1, that I'll have to complete the form 1 process again and pay the fee again.
As for the form 1 being about building the thing entirely myself...I'm trying to learn here and as a career Soldier with a wife and kids, I can't throw money around to buy equipment with a large enough spindle bore to machine a tube for a 9mm can. I thought learning a bit at a time, incrementally I could develop skills and perhaps one day find the equipment at a price I can afford and take my education further. Telling me I should maybe go buy a can instead of trying to learn something is like telling me not to worry about learning basic car maintenance and just go buy a new car.
If buying a can was what I wanted to do, I wouldn't have come to a silencersmithing forum.

In short. Tube capable of handling pressure? K's or skip the machining process all together and press some washers in to cones and use spacers?

Let me give you a little advice from another beginer....myself.

I was right where you were at, didn't want to fork out a ton of dough aside from the $200 fee so I went with the excact same idea....maglight. problem is, it's a real pain trying to get it to align right on the barrel. Sure you can press some freeze plugs out and make some decent baffle but it wint last too long. then you have to ask yourself about cleaning it when it gets gunked up.

You can usually find a pretty decent lathe on craigslist for a good deal if you're patient and keep looking. after that it's not too much for material and then it's just practice until you get it right.

[pnl2012]

Is it for a Pistol ?, if yes you have to consider also having a Recoil Booster (or a “hand action” Pistol by chance). There are two main categories of “players” in the Suppressor’s Arena. Those who “can” and those who “cannot”. Test is the key. Test, repair, recore, modify, fix, … whatever … If you fall into the “cannot” category, forget about getting into MacGyver’s business. There are also underground categories and games on this field but being from USA and accepting being a “cannot” (Form 1 route), I do not recommend you to go and play. BTW, Maglite tubes do really well, even with larger Caliber than yours. The Suppressor’s stuff just remember me one lesson I did learn long time ago from the Computer Security Business: Performance, Safety and Cheapness. That’s the good news. Bad news ?, you can only choose two !

[Dr.K]

A mini lathe is better than no lathe......but a bigger lathe capable of bigger stuff is WAY BETTER!

You do not necessarily need a behemoth, but go bigger than a mini, you will not regret it at all.

[ranb]

Repairs can be made that do not replace parts, change the bore or lengthen the tube. My 510 whisper silencer has been damaged a few times probably by gas checks falling off inside of the can. The last baffle and end cap were dinged enough to cause further baffle strikes with jacketed bullets. I fixed the end cap by pounding out the dent with a hammer, then put it on the lathe to remove the high spot. The baffle went back on the lathe to ensure the hole was still in the center. The defects are still visible, but no more baffle strikes.

I am a big fan of making your own silencers as long as they are with baffles turned on a lathe. My advice to you is to invest at least $2000 in tooling and make a silencer for every gun in your collection. Make it a life long hobby. If this is too much, find a lathe you can borrow/use. If you decide that you enjoy making silencers then a mini lathe will probably be a dissappointment.

Ranb

[Historian]

Adamhen83, welcome and please accept our earnest and fondest appreciation
for your Service to our great Country, and the concomitant dedicated service
of your family that supports you.

Please allow me to give you some of the steps I took as a starting point.

1. For the money, around $500.00 -$700.00 range, you can find via eBay or local
an American iron, an Atlas 618 lathe. For pictures please see one on eBay item #121093772513.
In an NRA gunsmithing volume there was an article by an Alabama gunsmith who wrote
about his using this small lathe for many small tasks such as threading a .44 mag barrel.
Not the rickety Chi-Com hobby lathe. And it is easily transported.

2. Harold Hall has an amazing series of learning how to use a lathe by performing ever
increasing complex projects of building your own lathe equipment. I most heartily
recommend his "Workshop Practice Series #35 and #35",
"Lathework - A Complete Course", "Milling - A Complete Course". When you have finished
you will have learned so many skills and will have built useful tools.

<< http://www.homews.co.uk/ >>

Aa an added benefit you can practice the exact metal cutting techniques which easily transfer to fabricating
your final design without anywhere near actually flouting any ATF strictures until you get the correct authorization.

3. Then if you wish to delve into an advance study peruse the series of the Village Press, Inc,
Traverse CIty, Michigan, "The Home Shop Machinist, Inc."
The quality and caliber of the publications are worth giving up a few weeks ends at base clubs to
purchase them. The advanced projects further take you step by step into making new tools and
increase your skill levels. You may be able to convince the Base Library to purchase them as they
would make a great addition.

For example "The Shop Wisdom" of D.E. Johnson.

Though it seemingly seems to take longer, progressively honing your lathe skills will be
a shorter path, cheaper, and more satisfying.

Stay safe.

Best.

[BeerWolf]

1. For the money, around $500.00 -$700.00 range, you can find via eBay or local an American iron, an Atlas 618 lathe....In an NRA gunsmithing volume there was an article by an Alabama gunsmith who wrote about his using this small lathe for many small tasks such as threading a .44 mag barrel.
Not the rickety Chi-Com hobby lathe. And it is easily transported.

What Historian said!

I have a South Bend Heavy 10 and an Atlas 12 x 48, and I still often do small precision jobs on my 618 when the big boys are busy, or when it's just easier to set up on the small machine.

I've mounted the 618 onto a 18" x 40" legless table that I clamp down to whatever counter-top I'm using. I've even taken it to job sites and made parts on the tailgate of my Jeep.

It also fills the need for turning small diameter parts. The SB and Atlas don't turn very fast, putting a lower limit on what you can turn in them.

Bigger isn't ALWAYS better, though I do have to admit that I've needed a bigger machine for a job a lot more often than a smaller one.

[Historian]

Bravo, BeerWolf! And to find out that you have the larger Atlas's is
inspiring to a tool junkie such as me.

Some interesting things I have picked up recently from
the "Shop Wisdom" series:

1. Given our 618 has a 6" swing limit I read of how to make and install riser blocks between the
head stock and the lathe bed to allow a 7" swing. This will allow me to handle some
7" aluminum round stock that was given to me.

2. As I stated sometime ago here I built another 618 from NOS parts I purchased
on eBay over the last year. I certainly learned how to disassemble every part of the 618
and then reassemble making a 618 as it would have been right from the factory. Akin to what Mark Worman
of 'Graveyard Carz' does in restoring cars down to the last nut and bolt of his
gems. Not like the jokers who give a dash of paint and claim 'full restoration'.

I plan on obtaining a long 1/2" plate of aluminum to line it up with my working 618 180º CCW so that
I can have a 36" bed for holding a long barrel in a reversed tail stock live center. Reversing the
tool and performing the threading from the back I avoid the danger of running the 4-Jaw chuck
backwards which would unthread it from the spindle ... 'pop goes the weasel' crashing onto the floor.

3. From the excellent and generous Dean's Photographic site I made an ER25 spindle adapter for
my headstock to give me extra room for inserting longer sections of rod.
In particular since the ER25 collet holder is in metric Dean explained how to cut 1.5
metric threads just using the Imperial gear set of which I acquired doubles of course.


<< http://www.deansphotographica.com/machi ... /ER25.html>>
<< http://www.deansphotographica.com/machi ... atlas.html >>

4. I made a hand crank/threading handle for the headstock so that I can hand turn/cut threads on small pieces.
Mine is a variation of Dean's example using a cheap collet as an expander.

In reprise, our little American Iron can handle many small part gun projects, especially with the
Atlas milling attachment.

Best.