300 Blackout Vintorez Build

Yes, it can be legal to make a silencer. For everything Form-1, from silencer designs that are easily made, to filing forms with the BATF, to 3D modeling. Remember, you must have an approved BATF Form-1 to make a silencer. All NFA laws apply.

Moderators: mpallett, bakerjw

Post Reply
aze404
New Member
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:02 pm

300 Blackout Vintorez Build

Post by aze404 » Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:06 pm

Hey all, I posted this to weaponsguild: http://www.weaponsguild.com/forum/index ... ic=42300.0 and I was directed here for help. I want to build a 300 BLK Vintorez out of an arsenal 5.56 SBR, and my main problem was on how to build the integral suppressor. I want to start the suppressor right next to the gas system, but I am not sure on the procedure for integrally suppressing a weapon. I am aware of all of the NFA forms that must be filled out. Thanks alot!

User avatar
Capt. Link.
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 2517
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 10:05 pm
Location: USA.

Re: 300 Blackout Vintorez Build

Post by Capt. Link. » Wed Jul 24, 2013 2:09 pm

The technical hurtles of using that weapons platform are major.
I would not recommend it unless a manual operated rifle are alright or you are able to devote much R&D in the redesign.
The only reason after 243 years the government now wants to disarm you is they intend to do something you would shoot them for!

aze404
New Member
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:02 pm

Re: 300 Blackout Vintorez Build

Post by aze404 » Wed Jul 24, 2013 6:35 pm

What do you mean? I don't want to emulate any of the inside mechanics, I just want to mirror the looks and performance of the Vintorez as much as possible, and a modified 300 AAC AK seems like the best option. I don't quite get what you're saying about the manual operation or R&D. :?: :?:

User avatar
everyusernametaken
Senior Silent Operator
Posts: 149
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2012 8:40 am
Location: Northern VA

Re: 300 Blackout Vintorez Build

Post by everyusernametaken » Wed Jul 24, 2013 6:54 pm

Have you looked at detailed pictures of the VSS components disassembled? Should help you to see how it all fits together:

http://zonawar.ru/fotogalerej/VSS/vss_menu.html

Obviously the VSS has a ported barrel as well.

aze404
New Member
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:02 pm

Re: 300 Blackout Vintorez Build

Post by aze404 » Wed Jul 24, 2013 8:19 pm

Thanks for the link! The silencer actually looks really simple from those pics, just some diagonal baffles. Any idea how porting the barrel could be achieved though? Would the porting even be necessary?

User avatar
Bendersquint
Industry Professional
Posts: 11359
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 9:19 pm
Location: North Carolina
Contact:

Re: 300 Blackout Vintorez Build

Post by Bendersquint » Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:30 am

aze404 wrote:Thanks for the link! The silencer actually looks really simple from those pics, just some diagonal baffles. Any idea how porting the barrel could be achieved though? Would the porting even be necessary?
Yes it is necessary for the VSS.

aze404
New Member
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:02 pm

Re: 300 Blackout Vintorez Build

Post by aze404 » Thu Jul 25, 2013 2:25 pm

Would that be able to be accomplished without high end machinery? Or would a gunsmith have to do it for me?

User avatar
Bendersquint
Industry Professional
Posts: 11359
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 9:19 pm
Location: North Carolina
Contact:

Re: 300 Blackout Vintorez Build

Post by Bendersquint » Thu Jul 25, 2013 3:01 pm

aze404 wrote:Would that be able to be accomplished without high end machinery? Or would a gunsmith have to do it for me?
You can do it with a drill press yourself and get the quality of a factory made VSS.

If you want to do it the proper way then you need high end machinery(an EDM at the least).

User avatar
Capt. Link.
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 2517
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 10:05 pm
Location: USA.

Re: 300 Blackout Vintorez Build

Post by Capt. Link. » Thu Jul 25, 2013 4:37 pm

Bendersquint wrote:
aze404 wrote:Would that be able to be accomplished without high end machinery? Or would a gunsmith have to do it for me?

You can do it with a drill press yourself and get the quality of a factory made VSS.

If you want to do it the proper way then you need high end machinery(an EDM at the least).
EDM is great but sooo costly and have you ever set the electric meter ablaze! R&D costs $$
I blew my coffee laughing about the VSS quality +1 :lol:
The only reason after 243 years the government now wants to disarm you is they intend to do something you would shoot them for!

Sdustin
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 320
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2010 3:21 pm
Location: Ga

Re: 300 Blackout Vintorez Build

Post by Sdustin » Thu Jul 25, 2013 5:44 pm

Do you Reload? If you do why do you start with a x39 and make it a 358 gremlin. Thats closer to the 9x39.
When guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns

Sdustin
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 320
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2010 3:21 pm
Location: Ga

Re: 300 Blackout Vintorez Build

Post by Sdustin » Fri Jul 26, 2013 1:53 am

My next gun project is going to be an American version of this silenced sniper rifle. My plan is to use an ar15. A magpul prs stock. Psg1 style pistol grip. And a custom form 1 silencer/handguard. Im thinking about maching a custom barrel nut that will have two threaded parts. One will have the handguard tube thread on and have set screws and the second threaded part of the barrel nut will let the silencer thread on. The gas block and tube would them be inside the expansion chamber of the can.


I reload and I took notice that 98% of the rounds that I fire from my 300 blk are reloads. So I might as well have a full on wildcat round since I dont have to worry about being able to get factory ammo. This has caused me to to want something different. I want something unusual. So im looking at the 338 Spectre or maybe the 358 gremlin. These both are made from cases that are easily obtained. They both use a standard size projectile with a large choice of weights and designs. They both use a 6.8 and 6.5 bolt assembly respectively.
When guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns

User avatar
Capt. Link.
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 2517
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 10:05 pm
Location: USA.

Re: 300 Blackout Vintorez Build

Post by Capt. Link. » Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:09 pm

aze404 wrote:What do you mean? I don't want to emulate any of the inside mechanics, I just want to mirror the looks and performance of the Vintorez as much as possible, and a modified 300 AAC AK seems like the best option. I don't quite get what you're saying about the manual operation or R&D. :?: :?:
To mirror the performance or to get it to function as a semi auto you will need to emulate the inside mechanics of the VSS.The gas system is totally different than the AK.The locking system is unique and the porting is required for operation and stealth,even the cartridge is unique.The VSS is built from the ground up as a suppressed rifle and is very cleverly engineered,less the suppressor.
It would be cheaper to buy a kit AK and toss out every thing forward of the barrel trunion.You will need to handload no matter what cartridge you choose unless this is only for paper punching then factory ammo can be used.A redesigned gas system will be needed in either case.R&D costs will be the gas system development the barrel porting,load development and getting it to function reliably if it will ever.The suppressor is the easy part but will be part of the tuning process as well.
I'm not trying to be a buzz kill but a state sponsored armory chose to develop the VSS over the AK just my two cent's.
The only reason after 243 years the government now wants to disarm you is they intend to do something you would shoot them for!

User avatar
everyusernametaken
Senior Silent Operator
Posts: 149
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2012 8:40 am
Location: Northern VA

Re: 300 Blackout Vintorez Build

Post by everyusernametaken » Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:59 pm

Sdustin wrote:My next gun project is going to be an American version of this silenced sniper rifle. My plan is to use an ar15. A magpul prs stock. Psg1 style pistol grip. And a custom form 1 silencer/handguard. Im thinking about maching a custom barrel nut that will have two threaded parts. One will have the handguard tube thread on and have set screws and the second threaded part of the barrel nut will let the silencer thread on. The gas block and tube would them be inside the expansion chamber of the can.


I reload and I took notice that 98% of the rounds that I fire from my 300 blk are reloads. So I might as well have a full on wildcat round since I dont have to worry about being able to get factory ammo. This has caused me to to want something different. I want something unusual. So im looking at the 338 Spectre or maybe the 358 gremlin. These both are made from cases that are easily obtained. They both use a standard size projectile with a large choice of weights and designs. They both use a 6.8 and 6.5 bolt assembly respectively.
I like this concept. Replicating the VSS is not practical for most individuals, but working within the confines of existing platforms and components, you could make a modern re-interpretation of the VSS. The 358 Gremlin looks like a great starting point, though I'm not sure about availability of AR barrels. I have never experienced firing the VSS, but I would imagine that a modern suppressor (without a ported barrel) and 358 Gremlin sub loads or similar would be comparable in terms of sound performance.

User avatar
gunny50
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 784
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 7:11 am
Location: EU

Re: 300 Blackout Vintorez Build

Post by gunny50 » Sat Jul 27, 2013 2:39 pm

they did the right thing with this gun, right caliber etc etc.

just listen to vid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Af96XDdjvxY


( do not know if and how video can be imbedded at all here.)

You can hear them talking and loading the gun, and the shots are so noiseless so to speak.

gunny

User avatar
Capt. Link.
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 2517
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 10:05 pm
Location: USA.

Re: 300 Blackout Vintorez Build

Post by Capt. Link. » Sat Jul 27, 2013 3:14 pm

You can bet the farm its accurate :!:
The only reason after 243 years the government now wants to disarm you is they intend to do something you would shoot them for!

User avatar
Enfield577
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 779
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 7:29 pm
Location: New Zealand

Re: 300 Blackout Vintorez Build

Post by Enfield577 » Sat Jul 27, 2013 3:34 pm

Man that thing is quiet, you notice the dry fire makes the same noise.

Interesting design and very simple can
Of all the things I've lost it's my mind I miss the most

Historian
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 3209
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2010 11:37 pm

Re: 300 Blackout Vintorez Build

Post by Historian » Sat Jul 27, 2013 9:32 pm

Enfield577 wrote:Man that thing is quiet, you notice the dry fire makes the same noise.

Interesting design and very simple can
From the simple few slanted washers in the tube
I wonder what the measured increase in DB would
be with a empty tube given the number of holes
already in the barrel.

The question stems from the design of the odd ball
Parker Hale I saw in the 1960's with just a snorkel
from the front cap back 2/3 back. I have not
found any reference to this P&H model anywhere.
Talk about a minimalist suppressor design.

Post Reply