Tooling for cutting Titanium???

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L1A1Rocker
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Tooling for cutting Titanium???

Post by L1A1Rocker » Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:30 pm

Still getting ready for my next build - All titanium 300BLK can. I've turned stainless, aluminum, and carbon steel but never titanium. What kind of tooling bits should I get to cut titanium? I'm assuming that HSS is not the optimal of course, LOL.

Thanks.


Edit: Oh, what kind of speeds and feed rates should I turn this stuff? Thanks again.

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Dr.K
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Re: Tooling for cutting Titanium???

Post by Dr.K » Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:29 pm

Hss will do better than you think! Carbide is also a great option. Either way sharpness is important!
Kyle O.

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Re: Tooling for cutting Titanium???

Post by paul463 » Wed Jul 24, 2013 6:15 pm

I used HSS for mine. Ground them to shape and then hand honed with a fine stone. I ran the lathe at a lower rpm than I would for plain steel and it all seemed to work pretty well. My chips were stringy as hell though, that was the worst part of turning Ti for me.

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Re: Tooling for cutting Titanium???

Post by john.t.little1 » Thu Jul 25, 2013 7:07 am

If you go with inserts get the uncoated ones and sharp!
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Re: Tooling for cutting Titanium???

Post by Historian » Thu Jul 25, 2013 8:46 am

paul463 wrote:I used HSS for mine. Ground them to shape and then hand honed with a fine stone. I ran the lathe at a lower rpm than I would for plain steel and it all seemed to work pretty well. My chips were stringy as hell though, that was the worst part of turning Ti for me.
Some folks have warned of titanium's fire hazards, especially chips.
I remembered the following info that should be taken into account.

" Titanium has a melting point of 3140°F and ignition temperature of 2900°F,
but shavings can be ignited at much lower temperatures, including with a match.
Titanium may also self-ignite or explode under certain conditions,
including contact with liquid oxygen or red fuming nitric acid."
- Fire Hazards of Magnesium and Titanium
by Carlos Acedo and Scott Robinette NTMA Precision

Presented by "Long Living Chickens Association". :)

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Re: Tooling for cutting Titanium???

Post by paul463 » Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:44 pm

Historian wrote:
paul463 wrote:I used HSS for mine. Ground them to shape and then hand honed with a fine stone. I ran the lathe at a lower rpm than I would for plain steel and it all seemed to work pretty well. My chips were stringy as hell though, that was the worst part of turning Ti for me.
Some folks have warned of titanium's fire hazards, especially chips.
I remembered the following info that should be taken into account.

" Titanium has a melting point of 3140°F and ignition temperature of 2900°F,
but shavings can be ignited at much lower temperatures, including with a match.
Titanium may also self-ignite or explode under certain conditions,
including contact with liquid oxygen or red fuming nitric acid."
- Fire Hazards of Magnesium and Titanium
by Carlos Acedo and Scott Robinette NTMA Precision

Presented by "Long Living Chickens Association". :)
I have a bucket of turnings that I'm planning on trying to set on fire someday to claim Youtube immortality. Lol

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Re: Tooling for cutting Titanium???

Post by Bendersquint » Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:48 pm

paul463 wrote:
Historian wrote:
paul463 wrote:I used HSS for mine. Ground them to shape and then hand honed with a fine stone. I ran the lathe at a lower rpm than I would for plain steel and it all seemed to work pretty well. My chips were stringy as hell though, that was the worst part of turning Ti for me.
Some folks have warned of titanium's fire hazards, especially chips.
I remembered the following info that should be taken into account.

" Titanium has a melting point of 3140°F and ignition temperature of 2900°F,
but shavings can be ignited at much lower temperatures, including with a match.
Titanium may also self-ignite or explode under certain conditions,
including contact with liquid oxygen or red fuming nitric acid."
- Fire Hazards of Magnesium and Titanium
by Carlos Acedo and Scott Robinette NTMA Precision

Presented by "Long Living Chickens Association". :)
I have a bucket of turnings that I'm planning on trying to set on fire someday to claim Youtube immortality. Lol
I'd be wiling to say that titanium burns brighter than WhiskeyPete! Don't know about temperature but definitely as bright if not brighter.

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Re: Tooling for cutting Titanium???

Post by Stan1 » Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:48 pm

Whatever you use be careful taking very light cuts. It work hardens worse than about anything I've worked with.

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Re: Tooling for cutting Titanium???

Post by paul463 » Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:12 pm

Stan1 wrote:Whatever you use be careful taking very light cuts. It work hardens worse than about anything I've worked with.
I didn't notice much problem with that, but I kept the rpm down and the tools very sharp. I was taking whisper thin finishing cuts on the OD with a tool ground like this.
Image

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Re: Tooling for cutting Titanium???

Post by Bendersquint » Thu Jul 25, 2013 3:17 pm

Stan1 wrote:Whatever you use be careful taking very light cuts. It work hardens worse than about anything I've worked with.
I have never had a problem taking very light cuts in titanium and work hardening.....sounds like your tool was either dull or not very rigid.

What were your speeds and feeds looking like?

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Re: Tooling for cutting Titanium???

Post by Historian » Thu Jul 25, 2013 3:36 pm

paul463 wrote:
Stan1 wrote:Whatever you use be careful taking very light cuts. It work hardens worse than about anything I've worked with.
I didn't notice much problem with that, but I kept the rpm down and the tools very sharp. I was taking whisper thin finishing cuts on the OD with a tool ground like this.
Image
Please educate me. From the tools I use it seems that your set up is upside down.
Is this the way that you have discovered to be useful to Ti? Or do you reverse
the QCTP on the cross slide?

I do use my parting tool upside down but it is mounted on the back of the lathe
for non-spring.

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Re: Tooling for cutting Titanium???

Post by paul463 » Thu Jul 25, 2013 4:35 pm

http://www.gadgetbuilder.com/VerticalShearBit.html

It has limitations but works well when you need it.

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Re: Tooling for cutting Titanium???

Post by Historian » Thu Jul 25, 2013 5:50 pm

paul463 wrote:http://www.gadgetbuilder.com/VerticalShearBit.html

It has limitations but works well when you need it.


Thank you. I have not visited Gadget Builder for a while and missed
this. Ever learning.


Best.

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Re: Tooling for cutting Titanium???

Post by SRM » Thu Jul 25, 2013 8:25 pm

slick if i say so myself!

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Re: Tooling for cutting Titanium???

Post by Bendersquint » Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:55 pm

SRM wrote:slick if i say so myself!
Depending on the materials I would be concerned with bouncing the cross slide. Thats one of the main reasons why you don't do that, it can lift the cross slide off the ways.

Seen that happen in titanium and inconel! Pretty eye opening to see one bounce!

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Re: Tooling for cutting Titanium???

Post by paul463 » Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:21 pm

How's that? The spindle still turns normal direction.

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Re: Tooling for cutting Titanium???

Post by Bendersquint » Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:33 pm

paul463 wrote:How's that? The spindle still turns normal direction.
Does that not feed from the backside? If thats how it is run(which it looks like) then the material can lift it off ways.

Similar to the people that thread on ID on the far side of the tubing. Can lift the carriage during the cut.

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Re: Tooling for cutting Titanium???

Post by paul463 » Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:52 pm

Nope. Check out the link I put up earlier. Like I said, it has limitations, but comes in handy sometimes.

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Re: Tooling for cutting Titanium???

Post by Bendersquint » Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:56 pm

paul463 wrote:Nope. Check out the link I put up earlier. Like I said, it has limitations, but comes in handy sometimes.
Will have to read it more in depth at some point.

The concept seems there. Interesting!

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Re: Tooling for cutting Titanium???

Post by L1A1Rocker » Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:19 pm

Did some rooting in my late father's tooling cabinet today. I found lots of Carbide tools and a number of gold colored inserts marked Ti coated. What would the gold colored inserts be used for?

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Re: Tooling for cutting Titanium???

Post by Enfield577 » Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:25 pm

L1A1Rocker wrote:Did some rooting in my late father's tooling cabinet today. I found lots of Carbide tools and a number of gold colored inserts marked Ti coated. What would the gold colored inserts be used for?
Stainless and harder materials
Of all the things I've lost it's my mind I miss the most

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Re: Tooling for cutting Titanium???

Post by Bendersquint » Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:51 pm

L1A1Rocker wrote:Did some rooting in my late father's tooling cabinet today. I found lots of Carbide tools and a number of gold colored inserts marked Ti coated. What would the gold colored inserts be used for?
Steels and Aluminums to start.

Alot will depend on the shape/size of the insert though.

Ti coated doesn't really work well against titanium, its like a repelling magnet!

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Re: Tooling for cutting Titanium???

Post by grrifles » Fri Jul 26, 2013 12:40 am

What coolant works best with TI?


Thanks
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Re: Tooling for cutting Titanium???

Post by Homer » Fri Jul 26, 2013 8:33 pm

G'Day Fella's,

L1A1 Rocker, I have only recently started machining Titanium for the first time, in my 35+ years as a machinist!

I asked around my younger machinist/shooting mates at the local University, and they gave me to following advice:
Ti, transfers most of the heat from the task of machining, to the cutting tool!
Given this, use lots of coolant and make sure it is getting to the where the action is taking place!!!
Use high feed rates!

I recently had to drill a deep hole (200+mm or 8+inches) in a piece of Ti and took hundreds of 1 and 2mm deep cuts to get thru this!
By that I mean, I took several 1 or 2mm cuts then withdrew the drill, cooled it with coolant filled the hole with more coolant and repeated this until the job was done!!!

Hope that helps

Doh!
Homer

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Re: Tooling for cutting Titanium???

Post by Stan1 » Sat Jul 27, 2013 3:49 am

Bendersquint wrote:
Stan1 wrote:Whatever you use be careful taking very light cuts. It work hardens worse than about anything I've worked with.
I have never had a problem taking very light cuts in titanium and work hardening.....sounds like your tool was either dull or not very rigid.

What were your speeds and feeds looking like?
I wrote that a bit too loosely. I should have said be careful with slow feed rates and don't stop or hesitate in the middle of a cut.

Vaguely related story...
Recently a friend wanted a piece of Ti just to own it. I cut him a piece of 2" round Ti stock 2" long and cleaned up the ends on the lathe. No biggie. It then occurred to me it would be more fun to also have identical sized pieces of Al and stainless. As it turned out the 2" dia stainless of unknown alloy I had on hand was more trouble to machine than the Ti, but still no biggie.

It was funny to see people's reaction to the three pieces of metal. Every single person picked up two, bounced both in their hands, said "hmmm", swapped one for another, bounced, said "hmmm", lather, rinse, repeat. Almost everyone is surprised at the difference in mass across the three samples.

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