Review my plans

[Historian]

Thanks to two astute members jogging my memory in PMs I have
an added actual example of using external rods to compress caps
around a tube: e.g., Bogen #3036 professional tripod.

Just found an example on eBay for viewing: NOS #3036:
331049007345 eBay item number
where you can discern the external rods.

I think in metaphors and image analogies.

My Bogen #3068 I just looked has the same heavy construction.
It was used for the old mega TV studio cameras. Its construction
lends itself to holding an astronomical telescope.

[mollinst]

"If I recall correctly you are already working that market. "

Hey, I resemble that remark!

Bill

[Historian]

"If I recall correctly you are already working that market. "

Hey, I resemble that remark!

Bill

Excellent! I might have to pass on the 'America's Cup on Preserving English Puns'
of 'No English Word Goes Unmolested'
over to you.

Superb.

[gunny50]

Gunny, kudos for finding these classic pictures that I had not seen before.
They are immediately going into the archives.

Best.

I'll try to find the magazine that the article was in, I should have it, but as we all know the prototypes of these guns are so old that I might have to take weeks to find it.
When I do I will scan the article for you.
Do like the H&K sheet metal design and the way they locked it in the front with the end cap. Design also allows for wipe in end cap.
H&K is strong in Sheet metal parts. I have never seen one from the inside.
Gunny

Edited a typo

[mollinst]

"Excellent! I might have to pass on the 'America's Cup on Preserving English Puns'
of 'No English Word Goes Unmolested'
over to you.

Superb."

I thank you sir. Once again, you flatter me - obviously the result of my English studies at Whatsamatta U, under Prof. Curly Howard.

Bill

[Capt. Link.]

"Excellent! I might have to pass on the 'America's Cup on Preserving English Puns'
of 'No English Word Goes Unmolested'
over to you.

Superb."

I thank you sir. Once again, you flatter me - obviously the result of my English studies at Whatsamatta U, under Prof. Curly Howard.

Bill

Yes he was a Fine student graduating 6&7/8 out of 9
Dewey, Cheatem & Howe attorneys at law
The moose wants his diploma back!

[57fairlane]

I was recruited by CGNU right out of HS.

[mollinst]

Well dang it - the CGNU just went over my head...

Bill

[Capt. Link.]

Taken from the Frostbite Falls gazette:

Crazy Go Nuts University


Crazy Go Nuts University
Motto The future is you... probably.
Established Unknown
School type Private
Chancellor Unknown
Principal Strong Bad
Enrollment Unknown
Campus surroundings Field and Fence
Sports Teams CGNU Golf Club Team
Mascot The Jolly Dumple
Campus Radio Station 89.3 WSBD-The Voice of CGNU
Online site http://cgnuonline-eniversity.edu
Website motto Banner ad valorum

Crazy Go Nuts University is a university created and run by Strong Bad. To attend CGNU, applicants must send in the free art test consisting of drawing a guy with a big knife

Courses offered

On Campus

Strong Bad offers a wide variety of courses taught at CGNU, including:

Cheesing People Off
Indian-Giving
Cutting Ones
Doing Some Other Things
Home Invasion
Cracking Wise
World Domination
Sending Me a Dollar
Total Spaceship Guy
TV / VCR Repair
Get your Degree!

Online

Many courses are offered online, including:

Business Administration
Business Abomination
Mousepad Engineer
Infotainment Technology
e-Cutting Ones
The Lighter Side of Sports
Matt's Communications
Business Wheeling
Insider Trading
Computer Graphs
Bidness Dealing
Caps Lock Technician
Escrow Understandment
Marriage Apothecary

You have earned a degree from CGNU + 100 for modern reference.

Has anyone heard from the OP he's MIA. or must we pun on.

[Historian]

The siren call is too much to resist, you started it, even though I
use the Ancient Greek suppressor ... fingers in the ears.

"The King Ozymandias of Assyria was running low on cash after years of war with the Hittites.
His last great possession was the "Star of the Euphrates" , the most valuable diamond in the ancient world.
Desperate, he went to Croesus, the pawnbroker, to ask for a loan. 
Croesus said, "I'll give you 100,000 dinars for it."  
"But I paid a million dinars for it,"   the King protested.
"Don't you know who I am? I am  the King!" 
Croesus replied,
"When you wish to pawn a Star, makes no difference who you are."


And in honor of incompetent members of the Regime whose efforts at software development
for Obama Doesn't Care Health Exchanges is even crappier than Microsoft DOS:

"A skeptical anthropologist was cataloging South American folk remedies with the assistance
of a tribal brujo [ male witches ] who indicated that the leaves of a particular fern were a sure cure
for any case of constipation.

When the anthropologist expressed his doubts, the brujo looked him in the eye and said,
"Let me tell you, with fronds [ large fern leaves ] like these,
 who needs enemas?"

I shall stop HAMming it up before you Mete out PUNishment.

[mollinst]

The difference between an epileptic oyster shucker, and a prostitute with diarrhea ?

One shucks between fits. (spoonerisms aren't puns but, hey...)

And yes, I believe we answered the Ops' basic questions but, we have strayed... Perhaps he'd like to jump back in here and slap us all back to reality...

Bill

[Onebad06vtx]

Yes the tube has a 1.75 ID.
I have read every page on this forum and have lurked here for ages but never posted.
I built a form 1 22 lr surpressor with K baffles that is REALLY quiet.
But wasnt sure on which type of baffle to build this one with.
So for a 44 mag shooting subsonic 44 special speeds the stepped baffles are the BEST option??????
I can see them taking up less length (more baffles) then the K's.
But I can cnc what ever I need so thats not the problem.
Yes the tube will start 7" behind the muzzle and will be a chamber the the baffles will start in front of the muzzle.
So are the stepped baffles your final advise choice??????

[Bendersquint]

Yes the tube has a 1.75 ID.
I have read every page on this forum and have lurked here for ages but never posted.
I built a form 1 22 lr surpressor with K baffles that is REALLY quiet.
But wasnt sure on which type of baffle to build this one with.
So for a 44 mag shooting subsonic 44 special speeds the stepped baffles are the BEST option??????
I can see them taking up less length (more baffles) then the K's.
But I can cnc what ever I need so thats not the problem.
Yes the tube will start 7" behind the muzzle and will be a chamber the the baffles will start in front of the muzzle.
So are the stepped baffles your final advise choice??????

CPT Link says step cones.

I say K baffles.

Just because there are fewer baffles in there doesn't mean you won't get better performance.

[Capt. Link.]

[/quote]
CPT Link says step cones.

I say K baffles.

Just because there are fewer baffles in there doesn't mean you won't get better performance.[/quote]

I say integral with either.
The 44 will benefit with more volume ahead of the muzzle than behind it.

[Historian]

I truly am asking this in seriousness:

Has anyone experimented with a mixture, e.g., alternating of K's and Steps?

The reason I ask is that I am reminded that in another application with alternating cuts
( series + parallel couplings ) in a fluid logic design one got a surprising anomaly
that neither one topology could create by itself.

When shown I joked that is was an analogy to a lally column:

Steel pipe withstood one force and the cement another; together
their support capacity tripled or more.

Just a thought.

[Bendersquint]

I truly am asking this in seriousness:

Has anyone experimented with a mixture, e.g., alternating of K's and Steps?

The reason I ask is that I am reminded that in another application with alternating cuts
( series + parallel couplings ) in a fluid logic design one got a surprising anomaly
that neither one topology could create by itself.

When shown I joked that is was an analogy to a lally column:

Steel pipe withstood one force and the cement another; together
their support capacity tripled or more.

Just a thought.

Yes it has been experimented with and the results were good once the right combination was found, that took ALOT of experimenting though. Took it out of the Form1 realm into manufacturers realm...and in the manufacturers realm it is too costly to have all these different baffles for just one can.

[Historian]

I truly am asking this in seriousness:

Has anyone experimented with a mixture, e.g., alternating of K's and Steps?

The reason I ask is that I am reminded that in another application with alternating cuts
( series + parallel couplings ) in a fluid logic design one got a surprising anomaly
that neither one topology could create by itself.

When shown I joked that is was an analogy to a lally column:

Steel pipe withstood one force and the cement another; together
their support capacity tripled or more.

Just a thought.

Yes it has been experimented with and the results were good once the right combination was found, that took ALOT of experimenting though. Took it out of the Form1 realm into manufacturers realm...and in the manufacturers realm it is too costly to have all these different baffles for just one can.

Thank you for the information. Design instincts are still functioning it seems.

Other desultory images of novel internals came to mind during a lull in working on a technical
problem that sapped my attention. As I have tutored over the years when a seemingly intractable
problem arises stop working on it. Randomly think of any fun escape imagery ... female pulchritude,
longed for new lathes that will never take up spaces in any part of one's residence, former climes,
perform fun math puzzles or calculations, etc.

In the 1968 Report the Army engineers produced a short lived 100 DB suppressor. Seeing in mind's eye various
designs over the 'millennia' some thoughts came to mind that in another down time I shall reconstitute
and bore you with.

Q1: Given a .22 5" barrel with its peak pressure and volume fired into a Gedanken weather balloon,
what would be the spherical diameter of the balloon to have the pressure equal one atmosphere?

Q2: What then would be its surface area?

Q3: What design and arrangements of baffles in a 1.5" can, say a nominal 7.5" long,
would give you an internal surface area equal to that number.

Q4: What correlations can be made for each percentage of surface are NOT attained, i.e.,
near zero <==> 155 DB, 100% <==> 100 DB, and intermediary numbers?

This 20 minute respite and a cup of coffee with a piece of fresh German Chocolate
cake refueled the mental motor. But before returning to the 'real world' issue
I wanted to capture and write the above down hoping to elaborate on what insight
for research direction flashed momentarily.

Thankfully the Bible does not condemn Mental Onanism.

Best, Mr. B.

[gunny50]

In the 1968 Report the Army engineers produced a short lived 100 DB suppressor. Seeing in mind's eye various
designs over the 'millennia' some thoughts came to mind that in another down time I shall reconstitute
and bore you with.

For what caliber was this?
22 LR?
Why short-lived, was this due to construction?
Is there no documentation other than it was mentioned?
Reading back older articles I would think it was an Integral design, this was one of the most used solutions (for MOD and clandestine operations) on 22 pistols at the moment.

Gunny

[mollinst]

"Q1: Given a .22 5" barrel with its peak pressure and volume fired into a Gedanken weather balloon,
what would be the spherical diameter of the balloon to have the pressure equal one atmosphere?

Q2: What then would be its surface area?

Q3: What design and arrangements of baffles in a 1.5" can, say a nominal 7.5" long,
would give you an internal surface area equal to that number.

Q4: What correlations can be made for each percentage of surface are NOT attained, i.e.,
near zero <==> 155 DB, 100% <==> 100 DB, and intermediary numbers?"


Q1 What is the deflated size of, and the given altitude of the balloon?

Q2 See answer to Q1

Q3 Equal to which number... The balloon's volume?

Q4 Huh?


Bill

[Capt. Link.]

In the 1968 Report the Army engineers produced a short lived 100 DB suppressor. Seeing in mind's eye various
designs over the 'millennia' some thoughts came to mind that in another down time I shall reconstitute
and bore you with.

For what caliber was this?
22 LR?
Why short-lived, was this due to construction?
Is there no documentation other than it was mentioned?
Reading back older articles I would think it was an Integral design, this was one of the most used solutions (for MOD and clandestine operations) on 22 pistols at the moment.

Gunny

The 100db mark was subject to the equipment available at the time of testing.There are some good information in the 68 reports and the AMF reports of the early adsorption type suppressors.One of the best was the Hi Standard HDMS a .22Lr integral.It has been tested with a level of 24db reduction not bad as it used nothing but rolled screen and stacked washers made of bronze for suppression.
Was there ever a report and modern testing of the German suppressors of the WW2 period.

[Historian]

"Q1: Given a .22 5" barrel with its peak pressure and volume fired into a Gedanken weather balloon,
what would be the spherical diameter of the balloon to have the pressure equal one atmosphere?

Q2: What then would be its surface area?

Q3: What design and arrangements of baffles in a 1.5" can, say a nominal 7.5" long,
would give you an internal surface area equal to that number.

Q4: What correlations can be made for each percentage of surface are NOT attained, i.e.,
near zero <==> 155 DB, 100% <==> 100 DB, and intermediary numbers?"


Q1 What is the deflated size of, and the given altitude of the balloon?

Q2 See answer to Q1

Q3 Equal to which number... The balloon's volume?

Q4 Huh?


Bill

The context of the above set of questions is geometerizing the complex
calculations that are standardly taught in 'dog trick' courses.

The 'balloon metaphor' emphasizes that in many studies in physics it
is the surface that is important and not the volume (e.g., surface of Black Hole
has the information of the incoming energy; biological processes seem to be done
on the surfaces of cells, etc. )

The above Socratic approach is presenting a global way of relating internal suppressor
topologies to external sound produced to create figure of merits of new designs.

In this case it is the expanding surface 'Klingon Kondom' through the can and the surface
outside ( e.g., pinching a balloon at one end causes a bulge at the other end)

Thus dividing the total internal surface area of the 'balloon' into the notional external
surface area gives is a figure of merit that surprisingly correlates to perceived DB.

Starting with the 'worst case', no suppressor how big a balloon surface would be required
to fully contain all the gases from the barrel at 14.7 pounds/square inch?
Damned large.

On the other hand if all that surface were contained in the can at one atmosphere
how big a can would be needed such that the external report would
be that of a flea fart ... or believability measure of any Democrat defending dishonestly
Obama-Doesn't Care Health Plan on TV.

The ratio of internal to the can surface divided into that of the outer balloon gives a fast
Kentucky windage for effectiveness of design. Works for my simple minded lazy brain
as I did some 3-place accuracy on a slide rule.

Possibly this approach resonates with some young designer's 4-D thinking - ( yes 'four' but this would
really induce vertigo were I to blather on it ).

As an outstanding world famous mathematician I once had the honor of studying with
said " ... here are the sequence of lemmas and theorems that as you solve them you
will inductively gain the insights and skills to solve the last major theorem on your own
as if you were the solver; and you will have learned more by yourself than anything I could
have lectured you on."

Anyway, it works for me to ball park reasonable Gedanken Designs.

Now to reminisce about long ago atmospheric real balloon launching at White Sands.
What a gas.

[mollinst]

Ah ha... Now, armed with your kind explanation, I can honestly say, with complete certainty, that I fully understand... nothing.

Bill

[Historian]

Ah ha... Now, armed with your kind explanation, I can honestly say, with complete certainty, that I fully understand... nothing.

Bill

Ah, Grasshopper, you are now on the path to enlightenment.

The power to cloud men's minds so that they cannot understand you is
indeed a gift. Few reach Hanshi rank. [ Vegas Eight the hard way?]

In the hands of an evil man it allows him to become a politician.
And in some rarer cases, President.

Time to see Little Joe From Kokomo.

Best.

[mollinst]

"Ah, Grasshopper, you are now on the path to enlightenment."

Jeezzee, I hope so. I don't think I could stand another minute of success in this business waddling around in the dark!

Seriously however, we never know what we don't yet know until we seek the answers and, the more we learn, the more we realize how much more there is, still to learn. I take my place at your feet sensei.

Bill