All titanium can for .22

[Dr.K]

Rolling around the idea of an all titanium can for .22/rimfire.

Was thinking of an offshoot of the newer style Spectre baffles. cone/spacer combo, with a clipped portion off of the mouth of the cone.

I know the machining will be more difficult, but I've got some hours of making Ti chips under my belt with a couple of 30 cal cans. But, I've never cut the baffles out of Ti.

I am aware of the galling issues with Ti-Ti contact. I'm figuring I'll just keep some anti-sieze on all of those parts. Would there be any other issues to consider?

I should be getting a form1 back this month for a .22 caliber, and am rolling around ideas in my mind. I put 10 inches on the f1, so I've got plenty room to work with.

Have you seen a F1 all titanium in rimfire? I haven't searched yet, but I'm pretty sure it's been done somewhere, just not very common I suspect.

[57fairlane]

I am aware of the galling issues with Ti-Ti contact. I'm figuring I'll just keep some anti-sieze on all of those parts. Would there be any other issues to consider?

Wouldn't be that worried about the baffles . . . more the thread contact on your tube to end cap.

Class 1.5 fit tends to be fine

[paul463]

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=111329&view=previous

[Baffled]

It'd be sweet, an all Ti, small .22 can.

Baffles aren't that much of a problem. I treat Ti like a nasty stainless, and use turning tools hand-honed to razor sharpness, with an exaggerated rake, and especially a small tip radius. Lowers the cutting pressures massively, and it eliminates skip, rub. Thgen of course you've got to speed and feed slowly, and take your time.

HQ carbide works nicely, too.

Go for it! I'd like to see a Ti can anodized beautifully. Or... titanium is one of the most inert metals known to man. With a Ti can, you could probably dip it in nitric acid to clean! Of course the standard peroxide dip would be a cakewalk.

[Bendersquint]

It'd be sweet, an all Ti, small .22 can.

Baffles aren't that much of a problem. I treat Ti like a nasty stainless, and use turning tools hand-honed to razor sharpness, with an exaggerated rake, and especially a small tip radius. Lowers the cutting pressures massively, and it eliminates skip, rub. Thgen of course you've got to speed and feed slowly, and take your time.

HQ carbide works nicely, too.

Go for it! I'd like to see a Ti can anodized beautifully. Or... titanium is one of the most inert metals known to man. With a Ti can, you could probably dip it in nitric acid to clean! Of course the standard peroxide dip would be a cakewalk.

Beware!!!! The dip damages titanium!

[Dr.K]

It'd be sweet, an all Ti, small .22 can.

Baffles aren't that much of a problem. I treat Ti like a nasty stainless, and use turning tools hand-honed to razor sharpness, with an exaggerated rake, and especially a small tip radius. Lowers the cutting pressures massively, and it eliminates skip, rub. Thgen of course you've got to speed and feed slowly, and take your time.

HQ carbide works nicely, too.

Go for it! I'd like to see a Ti can anodized beautifully. Or... titanium is one of the most inert metals known to man. With a Ti can, you could probably dip it in nitric acid to clean! Of course the standard peroxide dip would be a cakewalk.

Beware!!!! The dip damages titanium!

I've got this new tool, it's called a "blast cabinet" I filled it with these tiny glass beads, and am going to blast them at my rimfire can internals with compressed air! Should work fantastically!

Yep, I don't use the dip anymore

As far as machining Ti, it was WAY easier than the interweb would have had me believe at first.
Just takes a little practice, as does any skill

Paul, that can of yours looks great! Exactly-ish, what I have been thinking. ha ha.

[Bendersquint]

I've got this new tool, it's called a "blast cabinet" I filled it with these tiny glass beads, and am going to blast them at my rimfire can internals with compressed air! Should work fantastically!

Yep, I don't use the dip anymore

As far as machining Ti, it was WAY easier than the interweb would have had me believe at first.
Just takes a little practice, as does any skill

Paul, that can of yours looks great! Exactly-ish, what I have been thinking. ha ha.

Blast cabinets work great, be sure to use a respirator as it will put all the lead dust into the air.

Machining Ti isn't difficult once you find out how it works.

[Tony M.]

Beware!!!! The dip damages titanium!

Wait, what?!

[Dr.K]

Stamp came in today!!!

[Baffled]

Beware!!!! The dip damages titanium!

You may be right, but I'd like to see evidence.

I use titanium as both anodes and cathodes in electrochemical setups to produce chlorates from chlorides.

Using any other metal, including (but not limited to) gold, silver, 316 stainless, copper, etc etc - the electrode crumbles to dust.

The Ti just sits there, fat, dumb, and happy. I have immersed Ti mesh into concentrated nitric, sulfuric, and hydrochloric acid, to clean the smut off of it.

It's damned inert.

[whiterussian1974]

I'm starting a new thread asking about dipping and plating. Seems more likely to generate applicable views/posts than .22 thread.
Hope to see you all there today!

[kingjamez]

As far as machining Ti, it was WAY easier than the interweb would have had me believe at first.
Just takes a little practice, as does any skill

You are very right. I've even seen it posted on this forum (by high post count folks) that you can forget machining Ti unless you have a massive machine. Ti is very machinable, you just have to get used to it and keep the surface speed low.

I'm about to do a mono-core in 6al-4v, the stamp should be back in a couple of weeks. I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with.


As to the dip question. I've got a bunch of 6al-4v sitting around and I can measure any corrosion that happens over time. I'm very very skeptical that the dip does anything to Ti, but I'll make some up and give it a try.

-Jim

[SRM]

Stainless tumbling media. Just got twenty pounds.
I need to get some Ti myself.

[Bendersquint]

I have tested ti in the dip and it damaged the finish on it made pits in it.

Dave at liberty did the same and posted a picture of it oxidizing in the jar.

The dip attacks the aluminum content in the titanium alloy. I tested g5, g9 and g23 ti.

I wish it didnt attack it would make my job a whole lot easier.

[Baffled]

I have tested ti in the dip and it damaged the finish on it made pits in it.

Dave at liberty did the same and posted a picture of it oxidizing in the jar.

The dip attacks the aluminum content in the titanium alloy. I tested g5, g9 and g23 ti.

I wish it didnt attack it would make my job a whole lot easier.

Ah, very possible indeed. That makes some sense. I would have expected the aluminum would be disbursed enough to prevent this.

[Bendersquint]

I have tested ti in the dip and it damaged the finish on it made pits in it.

Dave at liberty did the same and posted a picture of it oxidizing in the jar.

The dip attacks the aluminum content in the titanium alloy. I tested g5, g9 and g23 ti.

I wish it didnt attack it would make my job a whole lot easier.

Ah, very possible indeed. That makes some sense. I would have expected the aluminum would be disbursed enough to prevent this.

The reaction isn't as violent as when rimfire SS baffles are put in the dip but it still bubbles, which means a reaction is happening, and when examining the piece you find small pits.

Can you probably do it hundreds of times before its an issue? Probably, but why do something that you know is damaging it regardless of how fast or slow the damage comes?

[Tony M.]

The reaction isn't as violent as when rimfire SS baffles are put in the dip but it still bubbles, which means a reaction is happening, and when examining the piece you find small pits.

Can you probably do it hundreds of times before its an issue? Probably, but why do something that you know is damaging it regardless of how fast or slow the damage comes?

Dammit. I bought a Ti can purely because I could use the dip. I've only dipped it once, and didn't notice any finish degradation or pits, but I guess I'll just have to clean it sparingly since it's sealed.

[Baffled]

The reaction isn't as violent as when rimfire SS baffles are put in the dip but it still bubbles, which means a reaction is happening, and when examining the piece you find small pits.

Can you probably do it hundreds of times before its an issue? Probably, but why do something that you know is damaging it regardless of how fast or slow the damage comes?

Dammit. I bought a Ti can purely because I could use the dip. I've only dipped it once, and didn't notice any finish degradation or pits, but I guess I'll just have to clean it sparingly since it's sealed.

There are differing grades of titanium. Some have more aluminum than others. It might be worth a try to dip, but monitor closely. If the tube is the same alloy as the internals, you'd get an idea for what's going on.

Another option is the strength of the dip. I use 27% peroxide from a pool store, and that stuff can burn flesh. If all you're using is 3% drugstore stuff and vinegar, it may still get the job done without damage.

Another option I've always wanted to try - I am big into electrochemistry. When you have a circuit, with the can as the negative (cathode) terminal, it gets what is called cathodic protection. The charge prevents damage. The anode would have to be sacrificial, like another piece of titanium.

5V across the two, both immersed in the dip, would probably do the trick. It's a test worth pursuing.

[Bendersquint]

The reaction isn't as violent as when rimfire SS baffles are put in the dip but it still bubbles, which means a reaction is happening, and when examining the piece you find small pits.

Can you probably do it hundreds of times before its an issue? Probably, but why do something that you know is damaging it regardless of how fast or slow the damage comes?

Dammit. I bought a Ti can purely because I could use the dip. I've only dipped it once, and didn't notice any finish degradation or pits, but I guess I'll just have to clean it sparingly since it's sealed.

Doesn't have to stay sealed!

[whiterussian1974]

Another option I've always wanted to try - I am big into electrochemistry. When you have a circuit, with the can as the negative (cathode) terminal, it gets what is called cathodic protection. The charge prevents damage. The anode would have to be sacrificial, like another piece of titanium.
5V across the two, both immersed in the dip, would probably do the trick. It's a test worth pursuing.

Cool experiment! Please let us know how it works on a pair of scrap test pieces.

[kingjamez]

Beware!!!! The dip damages titanium!

You may be right, but I'd like to see evidence.

It's damned inert.

Did a test today. Here are the results:

I used 50/50 White Vinegar / 3% Hyrdogen Peroxide on a bar of 6AL-4V (Grade 5) Titanium with a "from the mill" smooth finish. Also as a "control" I used a piece of turned aluminum with a similar Ra finish. Note that the grade of titanium is one of the highest aluminum content alloys.

Here is the before picture of the Titanium bar:


I took pictures throughout the 6 hours I had it in "The Dip". At 3 hours I saw zero bubbles or pitting, so I added a piece of aluminum as a control piece.
Here is the aluminum and titanium in the same bath after the Ti had been in for 6 hours and the Al (6061) had been in for 3 hours.


As you can see the aluminum is bubbling, and when I took it out I could start to see an effect on the surface. There were little "pit" marks where the surface had obviously been changed, here is the best photo I could get of the small marks. They are best seen in the mill-finish section, but are also visible in the turned smooth section.


Here is the 6AL-4V Ti bar, after 6 hours. Close inspection by eye and photo shows no perceivable change in the finish.


The above result is consistent with the observation over the course of 6 hours of no bubbling taking place.

-Jim

[kingjamez]

Sorry for the large photos, I wanted to show as much detail as possible.

-Jim

[57fairlane]

Sorry for the large photos, I wanted to show as much detail as possible.

-Jim

Nice!!!

Thanks for the pictures

[Baffled]

Yes indeed, thanks for taking the time to give this a shot.

[Tony M.]

I'll add my thanks as well.

I was thinking about running a similar experiment next week, and you've saved me the trouble..