Orderd a new lathe!! Updated with pics!

[ken226]

I have a pretty limited budget when it comes to my machine shop, and being kinda crotchety and resistant to change, I had a tough time committing to something different.

I've had an old Smithy AT-300 Lathe/Mill/Drill for about 5 years and have pretty much worn it out using it for things bigger than its designed for. I've used it to build just about everything including form 1 suppressor builds, chambering and barreling rifles from .223 up to 300 win mag, and fabricating parts to adapt car engines to marine use. The spindle bore is only 1.1 in and its slowest spindle speed is 150rpm which made threading to a shoulder a slow affair turning the spindle by hand.

I've become pretty good at finding ways to get past its limitations, like turning the chamber end concentric on a center, putting the slimmer end of a barrel through the 4 jaw and into the spindle bore, indicating the muzzle end of the bore with a range rod on the backside and supporting the chamber end in a steady rest to thread and chamber. The bearings have worn and now have about .001 of play and it will cost more time and money than its worth to rebuild the headstock. I decided to upgrade to a bigger lathe and convert the AT-300 into a light duty mill.

Smithy has been good to me over the years with regard to parts and help so im sticking with them, even though I'm paying a little more than I would through Grizzly.

I just placed an order for an MI-1237L gearhead lathe. Its the newest version of their older bz-239/cz-239 machines. 12 inch swing, 37 inches between centers, d1-4 camlock spindle, 1.5 inch spindle bore, back gear, quick change gearbox for spindle speeds, quick change gearbox for feed/threading, and comes with a 4 jaw, 3 jaw, steady, follow, backplates, driving plate, centers, and a big steel stand!

It left Toledo, OH yesterday en-route to Roswell, NM I'll post lots of pics and a review when it gets here.

MI-1237L: http://www.smithy.com/lathe-gear-drive/mi-1237

[Historian]

I have a pretty limited budget when it comes to my machine shop, and being kinda crotchety and resistant to change, I had a tough time committing to something different.

I've had an old Smithy AT-300 Lathe/Mill/Drill for about 5 years and have pretty much worn it out using it for things bigger than its designed for. I've used it to build just about everything including form 1 suppressor builds, chambering and barreling rifles from .223 up to 300 win mag, and fabricating parts to adapt car engines to marine use. The spindle bore is only 1.1 in and its slowest spindle speed is 150rpm which made threading to a shoulder a slow affair turning the spindle by hand.

I've become pretty good at finding ways to get past its limitations, like turning the chamber end concentric on a center, putting the slimmer end of a barrel through the 4 jaw and into the spindle bore, indicating the muzzle end of the bore with a range rod on the backside and supporting the chamber end in a steady rest to thread and chamber. The bearings have worn and now have about .001 of play and it will cost more time and money than its worth to rebuild the headstock. I decided to upgrade to a bigger lathe and convert the AT-300 into a light duty mill.

Smithy has been good to me over the years with regard to parts and help so im sticking with them, even though I'm paying a little more than I would through Grizzly.

I just placed an order for an MI-1237L gearhead lathe. Its the newest version of their older bz-239/cz-239 machines. 12 inch swing, 37 inches between centers, d1-4 camlock spindle, 1.5 inch spindle bore, back gear, quick change gearbox for spindle speeds, quick change gearbox for feed/threading, and comes with a 4 jaw, 3 jaw, steady, follow, backplates, driving plate, centers, and a big steel stand!

It left Toledo, OH yesterday en-route to Roswell, NM I'll post lots of pics and a review when it gets here.

MI-1237L: http://www.smithy.com/lathe-gear-drive/mi-1237

Congratulations of a nice hunk of iron.
From the above you prove it is the man and not the machine.

Who says that Christmas comes only once a year.

Best wishes for many happy, safe/eye_protection, productive years.

[ken226]

I built this gun on the AT-300. It was as a Weatherby Vanguard youth model .223 that was way past its prime. I rebarreled it with an Obermeyer 6.5mm blank. I profiled, threaded, chambered with a PTG .260 match reamer, cut to length and crowned the barrel, trued the action face and bolt lugs, and turned the bolt face diameter to .308 specs on my AT-300.



And the icing on the cake was test firing it with some 140 grain Amax handloads:



I also cut from a blank the barrel, and machined the can for my NFA double form 1 gun. 2 tax stamps, 400.00 in tax and about 400.00 into the actual gun build (not including the fastfire3). All built on my old worn out AT-300 metric Chinese lathe.

I got the lower for 75.00, the upper for 85.00, the bolt and carrier free in a trade, 145.00 for the Todd Jarett handguard, about 60 for the lower parts kit and traded some lathe work for the buttstock. The barrel was a 1:8 twist .30 stump from a previous bolt action build. Its a 7 inch 300 blackout with a 5 inch can. Total overall barrel length, including suppressor is 11 1/2 inches.



I'm eager to find a friend/coworker who wants a bolt gun built so I can break in the new lathe!!

[ken226]

When I got home from work, the crate was sitting next to the garage. The crate had a lot of damage on one end:









So, bigtime concerned I started breaking the crate apart:







when I hooked up the engine hoist the motor fell loose onto the crate, so I had to take a pic of the wire connections so I can reinstall it later, then disconnected the motor and lifted it, rolled it into the garage and set it on the stand.

All looks good, despite the crate damage! I couldn't find anything broken!!!!







It has a plastic liner covering the front panel, and a little grease under the liner causing a little discoloration. It should clean up easily enough!!



The belts are loose in the gearbox since I had to remove the motor.



The tailstock end.



Looks like it does indeed have a D1-4 camlock spindle!

[ken226]

On further inspection I found the bracket that holds the motor to the headstock was broken, explaining why the motor was loose.

I'll find out how good or not Smithy's customer service is when I call tomorrow!!

[bakerjw]

Who signed the bill of lading? The trucking company is on the hook for the damage unless Smithy delivered it themselves.

Nice looking machine even with the damage.

[Capt. Link.]

Once its sorted out she give you good service.My box was busted but nothing was broken.You might try some electronics cleaner spray from Nappa to clean off the grease 2 cans is plenty for the whole machine.

[ken226]

My wife signed the bill of lading when it arrived. I was at work teaching a class and couldn't get away. I called Smithy and they are shipping a replacement motor mount this morning.

Unfortunately my job takes up all my mon-fri 7am-5pm time, which completely covers the hours delivery companies want to deliver, making it impossible for me to be there to inspect. She did note the damage on the bill of lading when she signed for it, so if something is really bad the shipper will be on the hook for the damage.

I'm thinking everything will be fine though, it looks like the only damage is the engine mount plate and one of the Norton gear levers on the front. The Motor mount is a pretty thick steel casting, and broke completely in half, but the metal inside the break looks really porous with some voids, so I doubt it was very strong to begin with.

The left side thread/feed Norton gear lever feels like it got tweeked just enough that little spring loaded slider that locks it into the faceplate holes, binds a little and doesn't slide freely. Smith is shipping those parts to me this morning.

I won't be able to make a test bar to check alignment until I get the motor mount plate, but when I get home this evening, ill put a center in the headstock and tailstock and see if they line up.

I know it doesn't really tell me much, but the carriage and tailstock both move smoothly all the way back and forth across the ways, nothing "looks" tweaked, or bent so far. I just wish I was independently wealthy so I could stay home and play with my lathe all day. I hate work!!

[Baffled]

Ohhh Yeah! Nice job documenting the arrival of your machine. There's nothing quite like taking delivery of a lathe, be it new OR used. And the shipping damage doesn't seem to be that big of a deal. If the motor mount hadn't failed NOW, it might have failed later, under power. Sounds like a defective casting.

It seems like a nice, big, stout lathe. I have fond memories of my first machine, a Smithy 3:1 job that I later sold, but it got me going in the machining hobby. This pure lathe is going to do good work for you.

I don't know what your tooling plans are, but I'd look at a D1-4 camlock 5C adapter if one is available. I use 5C collets more often than I do a 3 or 4 jaw chuck. And of course, an AXA or BXA toolpost.

Have fun! Thanks for the pics, keep 'em coming.

[ken226]

Ohhh Yeah! Nice job documenting the arrival of your machine. There's nothing quite like taking delivery of a lathe, be it new OR used. And the shipping damage doesn't seem to be that big of a deal. If the motor mount hadn't failed NOW, it might have failed later, under power. Sounds like a defective casting.

It seems like a nice, big, stout lathe. I have fond memories of my first machine, a Smithy 3:1 job that I later sold, but it got me going in the machining hobby. This pure lathe is going to do good work for you.

I don't know what your tooling plans are, but I'd look at a D1-4 camlock 5C adapter if one is available. I use 5C collets more often than I do a 3 or 4 jaw chuck. And of course, an AXA or BXA toolpost.

Have fun! Thanks for the pics, keep 'em coming.

I already have an AXA Phase II toolpost, just gotta turn down my existing toolpost stud to fit. This suckers got a 5/8 diameter toolpost stud and my AXA has a 9/16 hole.

The 5C adapter and a set of collets are on my short list!

I got home from work about an hour ago and removed the chuck and put a dead center in the spindle, the put a live center in the tailstock to see how well aligned they are. They lined up point-to-point perfectly. I started putting mt center extensions in the spindle and checking the alignment with the tailstock at different points along the ways, and the alignment was good everywhere I checked. Looks like I might be ok!

I called Smithy this morning. A new mount is already in the mail!!

[ken226]

I finally got the motor mount and my slightly bent Norton quick change lever fixed and got it set it place against the wall:





I also got a toolpost stud fabricated and mounted my imported from Wangdong copy of an AXA quick change mounted up:



This is my old AT-300. Got a lot of miles on it:

[Historian]

My overt admiration for your acquisition.
Lots of luck and enjoyment. Well done, Sir.

How did you lift that monster up to the table?
Are you teaching medicine, Dr. Bruce Banner?

What is better than a new lathe?
Two lathes. You can never have too many.

Very best.

[bakerjw]

Nothing wrong with keeping a small lathe around. Sometimes you have to work with smaller items and they're easier to work with on a smaller machine. If I ever come across one of the harbor freight mini lathes ay a steal price, it'll be in my garage very quickly.

[ken226]

My overt admiration for your acquisition.
Lots of luck and enjoyment. Well done, Sir.

How did you lift that monster up to the table?
Are you teaching medicine, Dr. Bruce Banner?

What is better than a new lathe?
Two lathes. You can never have too many.

Very best.

I had my wife Starla help, and uncle Rico came over as well!




Just kidding. I borrowed a 1 ton engine hoist from a friend at work. I clamped the base piece from the tailstock under the ways near the headstock, then went around it with a chain, and also threaded the chain around 2 of the bed center structure pieces down inside of and between the ways. I bolted the chip tray and pan while it was hanging from the hoist and put the chucks in the bottom of the stands to keep the center of gravity low.

[Baffled]

So turn some metal already!

[ken226]

So, I was turning some metal yesterday , finally! I have an issue, maybe major, maybe minor, im not sure how to take it yet.

On my crossfeed, I feed my cutting tool in to just touching the surface of a 1.250 diameter part, reset the dial to 0, the infeed it .058in. When I measure the parts new diameter it should be 1.134in, but its not, Its new diameter is now 1.192.

So the dial is marked in .002 increments, but actually infeeds .001! Is this something that was done on purpose, so the numbers on the dial actually show the amount the part will be reduced to rather than the amount actually fed in?

Is this a good thing or bad, a feature or mistake? I can see occasions when it would be convenient, but since my other lathe infeeds exactly whats on the dial, ill have to remember that their different when switching back and forth!

I'm not sure if I should be pissed or not. Opinions?

[Capt. Link.]

So, I was turning some metal yesterday , finally! I have an issue, maybe major, maybe minor, im not sure how to take it yet.
On my crossfeed, I feed my cutting tool in to just touching the surface of a 1.250 diameter part, reset the dial to 0, the infeed it .058in. When I measure the parts new diameter it should be 1.134in, but its not, Its new diameter is now 1.192.
So the dial is marked in .002 increments, but actually infeeds .001! Is this something that was done on purpose, so the numbers on the dial actually show the amount the part will be reduced to rather than the amount actually fed in?
Is this a good thing or bad, a feature or mistake? I can see occasions when it would be convenient, but since my other lathe infeeds exactly whats on the dial, ill have to remember that their different when switching back and forth!
I'm not sure if I should be pissed or not. Opinions?

The dial's are normal there is no standard for compound/cross slide/apron "yes its a pain". You can make up little plaques to screw to the machine to remind you.My compound rest is not etched around its axis.One of those annoying things about china dolls.I plan on dividing mine and add locks to the compound and cross slide feeds along with other upgrades.

[punkinhead]

So the dial is marked in .002 increments, but actually infeeds .001!

That's normal for some lathes (mine included). It means the dial readings are for the diameter, not the radius. In other words, if you turn the dial in 0.010" you'll take 0.010" off the diameter. I find it handy.

[Baffled]

Ken, the guys are right, and you'll find you prefer it this way. 90% of the turning you do is to a diameter. The other 10%, just bend your brain a bit. Like for threading, to get a depth, you'll have to go X2.

I have a DRO on my lathe, and it stays in DIA (diameter) mode almost all of the time.

The thing to check for is the accuracy of the screw. Take some brass or aluminum, turn it to some diameter, carefully mike it, then turn it smaller by some significant amount, making sure you do a finishing pass to take the spring out of the setup, and re-measure. If the screw is accurate, you're in great shape.

My own lathe is a tad worn. If I have 0.375" stock and set the DRO for 0.375", in theory it shows the exact diameter of the part as I take further passes. But if I want exactly 0.2500", I have to stop at about 0.252", and check the part. It's not always 0.252" exactly.

Anyway, enjoy the lathe.

[ken226]

Ok, I turned some metal!

I made a rifle bolt knob turning/threading fixture:


And my wangdong import collet chuck had a ton of runout, both radial and axial, so I made a fixture to true up the back face and register. Its a piece of 4130 chromoly chucked up in a 4 jaw, dialed in, and machined to the same specs as a 5C collet. I turned the registering surfaces to the exact same dimensions as the blueprint internals of a 5C collet chuck, for a nice snug fit. I then installed and tightened the collet chuck on it, then faced the back and trued up the register :



Both radial and axial runout on a collet mounted piece of precision ground rod now show the runout of the collet, because the chucks runout is now the same as the spindle runout! "0.0000" !! Oh Yeah:)!!

[Bendersquint]

Nice job destroying the runout! Definitely something to be proud of.

[Baffled]

Collets in theory are about as accurate a workholding device as man can make, but obviously the collets and the holder have to be carefully made to begin with. I've encountered some Chinese collets that look and feel perfectly fine, nice finish, yet a piece of drill rod stuck in there has an eccentricity you can see with the eye!

Now that you've got the collet holder trued up, you should have good success with decent collets like Lyndex.

Something to keep in mind, and I don't mean to sound patronizing - I don't know your experience level - collets are made to hold stock of an exact diameter. Not +/- 0.01"... If you stick a 0.742" stock into a 0.750" collet, it can ruin it. I try to keep it to less than 0.002".

Have fun, looks nice.

[ken226]

I'd always assumed that a workpiece as small as .002 under the collet size would result in the collet only gripping at the tip, and allowing some axial runout. 5C collets appear to close only at the business end, so unlike some other collets, the bigger the difference between your workpiece diameter and the collet ID, the more axial runout you get. These are my own assumptions based on the way the thing "looks" like it will work

Id never have even considered trying to stick something .01 under in a collet, that would definitely bend something on the collet somewhere!

I have a 1/64 increments set of 5Cs which cover most things I need them for, but for a lot of oddball sizes I make heavy use of, step collets. I can bore and shape the head to fit the parts i'm making. For production, nothing beats them.

[windchaser]

Nice looking lathe you have. How much does it and the stand weigh? I am moving to WA. State and buying a house trailer and i know weight is going to be a factor in deciding what to buy. Stay safe.

[ken226]

according to the shipping company it was 900lbs with the pallet, apron, 3 jaw and steady rest, which came installed on the lathe. I'm guesstimating the stands, 4 jaw, faceplate, drill chuck, 2 rotating centers, nuts, bolts and widgets, etc totaled another 150-200. About 1100 total.

I was pretty happy when I put my .0005 test indicator on the spindle. I couldn't detect any measurable runout on the od of the spindle, the d1-4 register flange, or on the 5mt taper inside the spindle!

I don't think the 4 jaws register flange is a snug enough fit on the spindle though. After making the collet chuck jig and truing up the collet chuck, I marked the 4 jaw for future reference and removed it with the jig still mounted. I reinstalled it later with the 4 jaw in the same orientation and the truing jig now has .003 runout.