Does anyone have ideas for radical designs?

[whiterussian1974]

Add "Fielded Worldwide by USMC" and you've got a winner.

"Fielded Worldwide by USMC" and contracted out by a .gov stooge.
I don't see how you can reach equilibrium producing 20 units a year unless you run the garage.
Renting the equipment costs bucks you can't rent time as the FFL is address based!

Having Cousins in the Pentagon Procurement Section definitely helps.
Yes, I was planning to buy a used lathe and run it in my attached garage.
It's on 2 acres and surrounded by trees. I would need earplugs + muffs. But slab foudation would support the weight.

As for address, perhaps I'm mistaken but I thought that was for records and parts storage rather than where parts were finished. I planned to rent time on CNC, laser engraving, annodizing, etc. As long as I was there, any helpers would be contract employees.
I never investigated further since the Business Model wasn't workable for me. I asked around to see if my Professional Contacts were interested in preordering, but they all preferred mature Product lines. I certainly can't blame them.
In the end I decided that just threading barrels was a better use of my time, skills. 75$/barrel w/ thread protector or 55$ w/o. However, other life events intervened and I returned the Lathe and cancelled the drill press order.

[Capt. Link.]

You would still need a 01 to do barrels and at those prices you would have lots of work and little profit.
The Pentagon you mean the worlds largest adult daycare center as us locals call it. no disrespect to your cousins mine were smart and stayed in Texas!

[Bendersquint]

As for address, perhaps I'm mistaken but I thought that was for records and parts storage rather than where parts were finished. I planned to rent time on CNC, laser engraving, annodizing, etc. As long as I was there, any helpers would be contract employees.
I never investigated further since the Business Model wasn't workable for me. I asked around to see if my Professional Contacts were interested in preordering, but they all preferred mature Product lines. I certainly can't blame them.
In the end I decided that just threading barrels was a better use of my time, skills. 75$/barrel w/ thread protector or 55$ w/o. However, other life events intervened and I returned the Lathe and cancelled the drill press order.

Yes, you are mistaken.

The 07/02 authorizes a company operating at a SPECIFIC location the ability to perform the restricted activities.

The 07/02 does not travel with an individual.

All parties being used as sub-contractors must be licensed as an 07/02.

CPTLInk is correct, basic gunsmithing(threading barrels etc...) requires at the least an 01 FFL.

[whiterussian1974]

Thanks for clarification Cpt and Bend. As I said, I never applied and ended up not keeping the equipment.
As for prices, this was 2003-4. Before the 2008 Barney Frank Bubble and 16 Trillion in Interest Payments w/o decreasing Principle.
(National Debt isn't 16trill. It's around 212trill in total Principle and Instruments.)
So I tried to be competitive. If Gemtech was charging $75 and others were charging 125-150$, then I figured that my quicker turn around and no shipping charges would help me compete.
Alas, all for naught.

I'm happy w what I have. Just visit this forum hoping to stimulate my mind and help advance the Art.
I'm w Historian, still striving for the sub 120dB can. (Shooter's position, not Mil-Spec 1m left.)
And sub 100dB for subsonics and Rimfire.

[whiterussian1974]

Have any 7/02s or NZers tried adding 4" of open tube beyond the far endcap?
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=123729
This thread reminded me of an idea I had to use an integral Quel-a-Tek Sleeve that telescopes past the can for use, then pushes back for storage. The captive design makes it permanently attached, so no extra $200 Stamp.
Most of the sound from a suppressed shot is caused by rapid displacement of air at can exit and turbulant cavatation. By using a 4"Lx1.5"OD Normalization Chamber, the exiting gases expand and slow w/i a protective pocket b/f full atmospheric exposure. Thus, a "smoothing" effect for transferring gas volume and compression of atmosperic air.

[Baffled]

Like many here, I thought of some radical designs, executed a couple with zero attempt at any rational thought as to why my new stack would work better than what's out there, and have achieved a zen-like harmony by pursuing a different philosophy...

Simplicity.

I want, would like to see, good to excellent performance wrung out of very simple and easily executable stacks. We have suppressors now with only two parts. I'd like to see a one-part suppressor. Also, good to excellent performance out of very simple and common parts, or materials, that the average Joe can source. To me, a well-executed freeze plug or washer and spacer or stamped baffle design is more appealing than one made out of NASA aerogel fill and moving valves or CO2 cylinders.

Diminishing returns arrived 15 to 20 years ago. Like the 100 meter dash, the performance curve has peaked, and any further gains are going to be both infrequent and difficult to achieve.

[whiterussian1974]

... have achieved a zen-like harmony by pursuing a different philosophy...
Simplicity.

I want, would like to see, good to excellent performance wrung out of very simple and easily executable stacks. Also, good to excellent performance out of very simple and common parts, or materials, that the average Joe can source. To me, a well-executed freeze plug or washer and spacer or stamped baffle design is more appealing than one made out of NASA aerogel fill and moving valves or CO2 cylinders.

My Alpha Baffle design Thread covers this. I was new to the Forum and was a real prick, experiencing growing pangs. My apologies again to Cpt Link, CMV, et al.
It was a stamped cone washer, covered 1/3 way down the side by a flat washer w a bleed hole/slit. A simple K/Omega type variant perverted to form a different Greek Letter just for simplicity of Make.

I contemplated an Aerogel analogue with a low surface tension and pocketed bubbles set properties. I've scoured the Net, but haven't yet found such a material. Basically a whole can self-reformable wipe.
Aluminium Foam w/ stellite gromet mouthes is the best I've found. The outside of the 1st 2 chambers are plated to prevent leakage, but the remaining can allows small bleed holes to vent gas at ultra sonic frequencies.
The quick mouth and throat erosion is the biggest problem. Maybe Metalurgists will devise a new alloy that resists erosion and yet easy to cast.

[whiterussian1974]

Another Poster mentioned the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiele/Small signal parameters.
Maybe we need an elastic cover inside the cones? It would have a vibratory mass-spring effect absorbing sound and creating greater turbulence.
Maybe just similar to a wipe inside the far endcap, only not touching the bullet?
Staging them throughout the stack might not be feasible. The Endcap Wipe idea makes sense though. I've seen neoprene cups covering the endcap. Never had a sound meter to measure them.
Anyone else try this? An inverted drive speaker? Just reverse the below pic so dustcap/boreline is at top.

This is very similar to the 1-way valve theory thread where I described a diaphram that blocks the can exit. Blast will push the 3 petalled dome to collapse and occlude the exit. Then a light spring will reset the petals after blast abatement.
I don't know what material would have the semirigid yet positional memory properties. There are "self-healing" elastomers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-healing_material

[Capt. Link.]

Like many here, I thought of some radical designs, executed a couple with zero attempt at any rational thought as to why my new stack would work better than what's out there, and have achieved a zen-like harmony by pursuing a different philosophy...

Simplicity.

I want, would like to see, good to excellent performance wrung out of very simple and easily executable stacks. We have suppressors now with only two parts. I'd like to see a one-part suppressor. Also, good to excellent performance out of very simple and common parts, or materials, that the average Joe can source. To me, a well-executed freeze plug or washer and spacer or stamped baffle design is more appealing than one made out of NASA aerogel fill and moving valves or CO2 cylinders.

Diminishing returns arrived 15 to 20 years ago. Like the 100 meter dash, the performance curve has peaked, and any further gains are going to be both infrequent and difficult to achieve.

I do enjoy high performance and anything that is 30 db or better can be a very sweet sound to blown eardrums.Our perspectives change daily and its easy to become jaded upon the last improvement to the Art.During the 1940s the HD-MS pistol in .22 @ 24db was described as Silent.De Lisle and Maxim would claim witchery it they ever heard a Tirant in .45 today.
I like simple designs but am intrigued by today's Art.I don't think any major gains are possible either until accurate sound equipment is available to a larger percentage of the populace to include all the untested,UN-tuned/UN-developed designs.Most gains have been small with an average of about 3db a decade.
A "oil" can suppressor has its appeal.I don't know how a one piece can would work but I'm a little vague on what a one piece is.Just give me some tools and a little material and I'll look into it.It dose not need to be high tech to impress me either but should be of high quality of construction and safe.I love the clever builds made from flat washers more than a computer generated inconel wonder.To coin a phrase it ain't rocket science. 73s

[whiterussian1974]

It dose not need to be high tech to impress me but should be of high quality of construction and safe.I love the clever builds made from flat washers more than a computer generated inconel wonder.To coin a phrase it ain't rocket science. 73s

I agree completely. Except for not rocket science. This is PRECISELY rocket science. Baffles are a series of rocket nozzles directing fluid flow.

This vaned nozzle on a RSA-3 got my attention. I think that it's just a moveable slanted sidewall design. Just thought it fit into Capt's post.

[whiterussian1974]

When I look around my house I see mixs of hard and soft material to reflect and damp sound. Doors w fabric facing. Utility room w folding wooden doors and old towels attached to their inner surfaces. Computer cabinet w wood panal door and sides, but lined w felt-like material.

So, why not the same for the Normalization chamber? The extreme environment of early chambers makes this inpractical. But the conditions for the last 2 are aminable. This also mixes in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bass_trap principles and positional modality (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_modes).

This indicates that a self-healing elastomer O-ring inside the base of cones may have some minimal benefit.
I think that I'll try this on my next F1. Has anyone else tried/willing to try?
Would this be considered a wipe, or a "part?"
If it's a domed cap (aka: speaker membrane) instead of an O-ring that may hav different results. Any NZ or 7/2 up for testing? Shouldn't cost much and a 2-3dB reduction would cut impulse by 35-50%. The goal is to smooth the sound, rather than eliminate it. The meter may not show results. But Subjective observation should. ???

[Capt. Link.]

When I look around my house I see mixs of hard and soft material to reflect and damp sound. Doors w fabric facing. Utility room w folding wooden doors and old towels attached to their inner surfaces. Computer cabinet w wood panal door and sides, but lined w felt-like material.

So, why not the same for the Normalization chamber? The extreme environment of early chambers makes this inpractical. But the conditions for the last 2 are aminable.

I think that I'll try this on my next F1. Has anyone else tried/willing to try?
Would this be considered a wipe, or a "part?"

Of course its a part and another baffle will work better than a large exit chamber or lining it with any non reflective material.Baffles are not De Laval nozzles as ideal gas laws fall apart under a non steady state.This is not rocket science as the goal is dissipation and filtering of energy that may be perceived as sound not focusing and the control of pressure to create thrust. Apply K.I.S.S. and your head will stop throbbing.
Look at successful designs of today old texts books are for the record of where we came from and how far we have come.Even I let my Flat Earth membership lapse.

PS. keep going on with research.You have stirred up a few notable ideas.

[whiterussian1974]

Thanks for Input Capt. Since I don't have 100,000$ R&D budget, I have to relie upon imagination, equations, and learning from others' experience.

I think that my next F1 will be a captive Qual-a-Tek sleeve, with endcap on sleeve. A compressible petalled silicon rubber dome as wipe, and maybe O-rings at the base of the cones.
Even if the O-rings get eroded, I can have Bender bid on replacing them. But I think that I can "prefoul" them to form a protective coating.
It will be a .729"cal x 36"L for the CZ550 actioned .729x2.5" Kerberos. It should compress to 18" for storage. Maybe the design will shorten to 24"L extended, but I'm giving myself plenty of wiggle room since "I can remove, but not add."

I'm watching "Flying Cars" on the Smithsonian Channel. A 2010 DARPA issued a proposal request to move 4 Marines both on the ground and flying from V/Stol. AAI got the contract for designing an Armored HUMMV that converts into a Gyroplane.
A HUMMV with wings, helicoptor rotor and pusher propeller? That actually flies?
"With a pile of Junk and endless experimentation, nearly anything can be made." paraphrase of Thomas Edison. Of course cheating Nicolai Tesla into designing revolutionary products and then stealing the IntelProperty also helps.
I guess that's what NDAs are for.

[whispershot]

Would a suppressor shaped like a cone be more effective? For example the tube is smaller at the end that connects to the gun barrel and larger at the end where the bullet exits the suppressor. Don't laugh, but something like the homemade suppressor on the kid's gun in "The Walking Dead" TV series is what I'm talking about. I know most junk on TV is just that ... junk, but is there any reason to believe that more volume in the distal end of the suppressor would improve its function significantly? I realize too that the large end of the suppressor would make it impossible to use pistol sights. Just curious about the concept though.(Supposed to be a homemade suppressor from an aluminum baseball bat.)

[MCKNBRD]

'Significantly'? Compared to what, an Octane? No, I think the commercial can will win over a bbbb...(baseball bat based build ahem... ). Interesting concept, as you are getting more volume radially, but I'd guess that volume is on the wrong end. I would think that MORE volume at the barrel muzzle would be better than at the exit of the suppressor.

Plus, there is the whole issue of making that suppressor...tubes are much easier to make than tapers, and the spacers for any baffles would have to be a LOT stronger to handle the higher thrust loads on each successive baffle.

Byrdman

[Historian]

'Significantly'? Compared to what, an Octane? No, I think the commercial can will win over a bbbb...(baseball bat based build ahem... ). Interesting concept, as you are getting more volume radially, but I'd guess that volume is on the wrong end. I would think that MORE volume at the barrel muzzle would be better than at the exit of the suppressor.

Plus, there is the whole issue of making that suppressor...tubes are much easier to make than tapers, and the spacers for any baffles would have to be a LOT stronger to handle the higher thrust loads on each successive baffle.

Byrdman

+1, again.

A trumpet played backwards does not sound as sweet nor as loud.

And example of one of my favorite pieces should clarify.

<< http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjqjnaA1nVg >>

[doubloon]

Would a suppressor shaped like a cone...
http://i1012.photobucket.com/albums/af2 ... detail.jpg

Maybe move the cone further forward and increase the total volume.


The advantage of this design is you can put an adapter preparation tool on your sound meter.

[whiterussian1974]

Squid and Leaf Spring Wipe Concepts.


Self-Healing Elastomers used for wipes.
The model on left has spiral cuts that allow compression and thus tips to occlude boreline near exit.
The model on right slides across itself to block and disturb gas passage upon exit. No wipe necessary. They narrow the passage w/o completely blocking it. This version could probably be used immediately behind the blast baffle. The Gray sections are just for visual contrast. It's actually empty space about 150% larger than bullet passing through.
The blast wave overcomes inertia to press each down after bullet passage.
Would need to be a tuned system for use on non-slowfire apps.

Using the right model just past blast baffle and left model just before far endcap would probably be an ideal setup.

[whiterussian1974]

I just scanned back through this thread and didn't see links to my previous idea threads.
So here they are for reference.

Oneway valves use on Slowfire semis. viewtopic.php?f=10&t=120801

Telescopic Suppressor! viewtopic.php?f=10&t=121297
No need to further discuss them. Just thought that some readers might like to read the discussion and critiques.

[RJT]

Would a suppressor shaped like a cone...
http://i1012.photobucket.com/albums/af2 ... detail.jpg

Maybe move the cone further forward and increase the total volume.


The advantage of this design is you can put an adapter preparation tool on your sound meter.

I will gladly help R&D that, FREE of charge.

[Elkins45]

I've heard some crazy stories . . . never seen/heard one in person

I do know of a guy who has a way around silencerco's patent on the clamshells . . . not sure why it hasn't gone into production somewhere.

I have a way around Silencerco's patent on the clamshell too: machine enough clearance into the core that you can give it a single wrap of metallic (real) duct tape.

[Bendersquint]

I've heard some crazy stories . . . never seen/heard one in person

I do know of a guy who has a way around silencerco's patent on the clamshells . . . not sure why it hasn't gone into production somewhere.

I have a way around Silencerco's patent on the clamshell too: machine enough clearance into the core that you can give it a single wrap of metallic (real) duct tape.

Wouldn't be able to be replaced by the owner though so hope the duct tape lasts forever or a friendly 07/02 will replace it as needed.

[Elkins45]

I've heard some crazy stories . . . never seen/heard one in person

I do know of a guy who has a way around silencerco's patent on the clamshells . . . not sure why it hasn't gone into production somewhere.

I have a way around Silencerco's patent on the clamshell too: machine enough clearance into the core that you can give it a single wrap of metallic (real) duct tape.

Wouldn't be able to be replaced by the owner though so hope the duct tape lasts forever or a friendly 07/02 will replace it as needed.

Wouldn't this be considered a user replaceable component like a wipe or o-ring? If not then perhaps it could be opened up a bit for strips of flashing coil. Those would last a good while, I would think.

[Bendersquint]

Wouldn't this be considered a user replaceable component like a wipe or o-ring?

Not in a million years.

ATF allows wipes and o-rings to be replaced but nothing else. This is why you don't see designs like this.

[3DHUSKER]

Bendersquint.... Don't you have some phone calls and text messages from customers you need to return. I hear you haven't been doing a very good job of that. Back away from your computer and giving away free advise and make that call.