K Baffle questions

Yes, it can be legal to make a silencer. For everything Form-1, from silencer designs that are easily made, to filing forms with the BATF, to 3D modeling. Remember, you must have an approved BATF Form-1 to make a silencer. All NFA laws apply.

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K Baffle questions

Post by Shift1 » Fri Apr 04, 2014 8:09 pm

K Baffle question.....Considering construction of a k-baffle .22 accessory. When adding the scoop and port is there a preferred overlap to the bore? Example..... should the center of the cutter be on the edge of the bore or is it more like a 2/3 type rule, in which 2/3 of cutter is away and 1/3 overlaps bore? Second.... should the tool diameter used to cut the port and scoop be the same diameter as the bore?

As always thanks for any insight
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Re: K Baffle questions

Post by CMV » Fri Apr 04, 2014 10:57 pm

I don't know if it's 'right' but I did mine with the ball nose endmill half over the bore - cut a hemisphere. I used 1/4" tooling.
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Re: K Baffle questions

Post by MCKNBRD » Sat Apr 05, 2014 9:52 am

CMV wrote:I don't know if it's 'right' but I did mine with the ball nose endmill half over the bore - cut a hemisphere. I used 1/4" tooling.
And it works...good enough to not disturb the neighbor's cat 30 feet away. :lol:

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Re: K Baffle questions

Post by Shift1 » Sat Apr 05, 2014 8:03 pm

thanks...
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Re: K Baffle questions

Post by Shift1 » Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:03 pm

pretty much in planning and design stage now and will be filling out forms soon. Planning on using 1.250 od AL tube with primary use on pistol. Put pencil to paper and I can put 5 baffles into 6 inches or 6 into 7 inches. Personal preference is for shorter tube just for aesthetics. As I have zero experience with k baffles would the 5 be sufficient for the task at hand. Will be for .22 cal.
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Re: K Baffle questions

Post by whiterussian1974 » Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:07 pm

put 9" Length on your F1. You can always go shorter. If 5 K's work, just cut it shorter. This way you get some wiggle room for any mistakes. You might even screw-up a k, requiring rework or destruction.
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Re: K Baffle questions

Post by Shift1 » Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:19 pm

Has been a bit since building last one...has the Cleo approval gone away now or still required. Or just call him and find out?
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Re: K Baffle questions

Post by CMV » Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:31 pm

Mine is 1.100 OD & uses 7 K's. I think that's at least 1 too many as the last few stay really clean (in comparison to the ones ahead of them). I don't think the last 1 or 2 are doing much except adding weight & length. I went with the "if some are good, more are better" theory, but if I were doing it over I'd go a little shorter & 1 less baffle.

But that is just an assumption - I've never tried removing a few to see if I could notice a difference.
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Re: K Baffle questions

Post by Shift1 » Mon Apr 07, 2014 10:49 pm

I would think there would be a point of diminishing return...good to know
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Re: K Baffle questions

Post by Shift1 » Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:29 pm

So....in a .22 lr application, what would be a safe baffle wall dimension for aluminum? Have worked in stainless mostly and been using .060 for a guideline for centerfire baffles and tubing.
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Re: K Baffle questions

Post by Bendersquint » Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:05 pm

Shift1 wrote:So....in a .22 lr application, what would be a safe baffle wall dimension for aluminum? Have worked in stainless mostly and been using .060 for a guideline for centerfire baffles and tubing.
Are you Type3 anodizing it or just raw aluminum?

Since it is a Form1 can I will assume 6061?

No legal changes have gone into affect. CLEO signoff going away has NEVER been presented by the ATF to the public. They are looking to INCREASED requirements not decrease.

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Re: K Baffle questions

Post by Shift1 » Wed Apr 16, 2014 6:29 am

Bendersquint wrote:
Shift1 wrote:So....in a .22 lr application, what would be a safe baffle wall dimension for aluminum? Have worked in stainless mostly and been using .060 for a guideline for centerfire baffles and tubing.
Are you Type3 anodizing it or just raw aluminum?

Since it is a Form1 can I will assume 6061?

No legal changes have gone into affect. CLEO signoff going away has NEVER been presented by the ATF to the public. They are looking to INCREASED requirements not decrease.
Probably raw AL. Yes 6061.... Thanks for clarification on CLEO.....
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Re: K Baffle questions

Post by CMV » Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:12 pm

7075 is stronger and even easier to machine. Only disadvantage I can think of is it costs a little more but still inexpensive compared to many materials. Check out Stock Car Steel for good AL prices in small qty. They are quick to ship and shipping fees are reasonable.

Last time I compared round bar and plate they were much less than online metals and my local supply yard. They're close enough to me that shipping is overnight which is nice too.
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Re: K Baffle questions

Post by Bendersquint » Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:15 pm

CMV wrote:7075 is stronger and even easier to machine. Only disadvantage I can think of is it costs a little more but still inexpensive compared to many materials. Check out Stock Car Steel for good AL prices in small qty. They are quick to ship and shipping fees are reasonable.

Last time I compared round bar and plate they were much less than online metals and my local supply yard. They're close enough to me that shipping is overnight which is nice too.
Most Form1 guys go for the cheapest metal possible, hence the 6061.

Good quality 7075 is maybe 25% more expensive, last alot longer and anodizes easier(in my experience).

StockCarSteel has good prices for small quantities.

Since we buy so much Al, SS and Ti we have been throwing around the idea of offering different lengths up to the silencersmiths on here to hopefully help them save some $$$ and use good materials!

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Re: K Baffle questions

Post by whiterussian1974 » Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:26 pm

Bendersquint wrote:Since we buy so much Al, SS and Ti we have been throwing around the idea of offering different lengths up to the silencersmiths on here to hopefully help them save some $$$ and use good materials!
And generate "Goodwill" which is great marketing. Often attracts customers who then purchase other Services in the Future. ;)
I see you're wearing your Thinking Cap again. Just like when you offer design advise. :cool:
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Re: K Baffle questions

Post by MCKNBRD » Wed Apr 16, 2014 4:54 pm

Bendersquint wrote: Since we buy so much Al, SS and Ti we have been throwing around the idea of offering different lengths up to the silencersmiths on here to hopefully help them save some $$$ and use good materials!
Matt, let me know if you decide to do this...

Especially for some delrin to model baffles with... :lol: :wink:
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Re: K Baffle questions

Post by Bendersquint » Wed Apr 16, 2014 5:02 pm

MCKNBRD wrote:
Bendersquint wrote: Since we buy so much Al, SS and Ti we have been throwing around the idea of offering different lengths up to the silencersmiths on here to hopefully help them save some $$$ and use good materials!
Matt, let me know if you decide to do this...

Especially for some delrin to model baffles with... :lol: :wink:
:shock:
Don't feed the troll anything to revive a long dead topic, it died awhile ago lets keep it that way.

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Re: K Baffle questions

Post by MCKNBRD » Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:02 pm

In preparation of getting my F1 back, what would type III anodizing cost for a .22 can, say, similar in size to your Dagger...baffles and tube in 7075...and how fast is the turnaround usually?

(FWIW, I'll probably steal your idea for the rear end cap...I like the black tube with bead blasted SS look...hopefully my idea will work well enough to not need your other services!)

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Re: K Baffle questions

Post by Shift1 » Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:24 pm

Very cool concept but have veered somewhat of the topic of baffle wall thickness....any suggestions?
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Re: K Baffle questions

Post by punkinhead » Thu Apr 17, 2014 5:14 am

MCKNBRD wrote:In preparation of getting my F1 back, what would type III anodizing cost for a .22 can, say, similar in size to your Dagger...baffles and tube in 7075...and how fast is the turnaround usually?
Small parts like that usually fall under a lot charge which is $125-$150 for the shops I use at work (non firearm related). I've heard of shops that charge 1/2 that, but we don't use them because our parts are usually important enough that we don't go cheap. Turn around is generally under a week. A type II home anodizing set up can be put together for less than that but if you don't plan on doing more anodizing you probably don't want the sulfuric acid hanging around.

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Re: K Baffle questions

Post by Bendersquint » Thu Apr 17, 2014 11:17 am

punkinhead wrote:
MCKNBRD wrote:In preparation of getting my F1 back, what would type III anodizing cost for a .22 can, say, similar in size to your Dagger...baffles and tube in 7075...and how fast is the turnaround usually?
Small parts like that usually fall under a lot charge which is $125-$150 for the shops I use at work (non firearm related). I've heard of shops that charge 1/2 that, but we don't use them because our parts are usually important enough that we don't go cheap. Turn around is generally under a week. A type II home anodizing set up can be put together for less than that but if you don't plan on doing more anodizing you probably don't want the sulfuric acid hanging around.
Generally the cost is around $75 for an entire can, remember the processor must be an 07/02 to do the work.

Just because it is cheaper doesn't mean it is done CHEAPER, it means it is being processed with other parts which pays for the rest of the load. ;)

Turnaround for us depends on when it arrives, when the next anodizing run is...you will have to give us a call for that time when that time comes.

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Re: K Baffle questions

Post by Dr.K » Thu Apr 17, 2014 12:14 pm

Shift1 wrote:Very cool concept but have veered somewhat of the topic of baffle wall thickness....any suggestions?
Shift, I would not hesitate to do a 7075 K baffle in .22LR .060" thickness. With that said, if it were me, I would consider a stainless blast baffle .050" thick, with the rest Aluminum. It's a tiny bit more weight, but would take the brunt off of the aluminum parts.

I have never done this, but plan on making some titanium baffles very soon with a thickness of .050".
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Re: K Baffle questions

Post by Shift1 » Sat Apr 19, 2014 10:44 pm

Dr.K wrote:
Shift1 wrote:Very cool concept but have veered somewhat of the topic of baffle wall thickness....any suggestions?
Shift, I would not hesitate to do a 7075 K baffle in .22LR .060" thickness. With that said, if it were me, I would consider a stainless blast baffle .050" thick, with the rest Aluminum. It's a tiny bit more weight, but would take the brunt off of the aluminum parts.

I have never done this, but plan on making some titanium baffles very soon with a thickness of .050".
K already had planned to use stainless for first baffle for erosion reasons as well as front and rear caps.
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Re: K Baffle questions

Post by Scared_of_zombies » Sun Apr 20, 2014 1:09 am

Shift1 wrote:
Dr.K wrote:
Shift1 wrote:Very cool concept but have veered somewhat of the topic of baffle wall thickness....any suggestions?
Shift, I would not hesitate to do a 7075 K baffle in .22LR .060" thickness. With that said, if it were me, I would consider a stainless blast baffle .050" thick, with the rest Aluminum. It's a tiny bit more weight, but would take the brunt off of the aluminum parts.

I have never done this, but plan on making some titanium baffles very soon with a thickness of .050".
K already had planned to use stainless for first baffle for erosion reasons as well as front and rear caps.
You've got it! That's a very well thought out set up.

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Re: K Baffle questions

Post by Shift1 » Sun Apr 20, 2014 9:38 am

CMV wrote:7075 is stronger and even easier to machine. Only disadvantage I can think of is it costs a little more but still inexpensive compared to many materials. Check out Stock Car Steel for good AL prices in small qty. They are quick to ship and shipping fees are reasonable.

Last time I compared round bar and plate they were much less than online metals and my local supply yard. They're close enough to me that shipping is overnight which is nice too.
Thanks to you and Bender for the advice for material use and acquisition....have historically used Online Metals. Will check out Stock Car Steel.
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