3-D Printing WSJ 18 June 2014

Yes, it can be legal to make a silencer. For everything Form-1, from silencer designs that are easily made, to filing forms with the BATF, to 3D modeling. Remember, you must have an approved BATF Form-1 to make a silencer. All NFA laws apply.

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Historian
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3-D Printing WSJ 18 June 2014

Post by Historian » Wed Jun 18, 2014 9:44 am

G. Fowler wrote an interesting article in the Wall Street Journal today:
" MakerBot Replicator Mini Review: 3-D Printing Comes Home"

<< http://online.wsj.com/articles/makerbot ... YWORDS=3-D >>

He mentions that one can print out a plastic comb. Extend this to a comb
which is wrapped around a spiral so that the teeth are like a rolled up
bundle.

Also an Australian news story on using paper to print 3-D skeletons.
Cold the paper instead of wax be used to make intricate and fractal
scaffoldings for 'lost wax casting' of shapes? They show multiple hemispherical 'oranges'
being printed out.

<< http://video.news.com.au/v/128468/3D-pr ... sing-paper >>

Allow me to predict that the next breakthrough in sound reduction in a
cylinder will result from printing fractal topologies via 3-D printer and casting. Add to this
at each layer a deposition of metallic particles analogous to adding of tin to
copper over 2,000 years ago to produce bronze. Multi compounds. Or PVC and sand/silicates?

WAG: within the next 3 years the price will dramatically fall and be in the range
of home machinists.

Only imagination is the limiter of what shapes one can produce.

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Re: 3-D Printing WSJ 18 June 2014

Post by Historian » Wed Jun 18, 2014 9:55 am

Some topologies easy to code:

<< http://74fdc.files.wordpress.com/2012/0 ... h-vase.jpg >>

<< https://74fdc.files.wordpress.com/2012/ ... =627&h=423 >>

And my favorite a Klein-Bottle version ( forget K-, Omega, Sigma, etc ) baffles.

<< http://alem3d.obidos.org/i/kbottle/kbc1.jpg >>

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Re: 3-D Printing WSJ 18 June 2014

Post by wp6529 » Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:56 am

Having a pretty well equipped home shop I haven't been too excited by the 3D printing hype. Using a 3D printer to produce cores for lost wax casting of "real" parts is the only thing that seemed useful to me. Perhaps at some point I'll embark on that project.

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Re: 3-D Printing WSJ 18 June 2014

Post by mx201er » Fri Jun 20, 2014 1:08 am

I am planning on picking up a 3d printer in the next month or so.. I have had access for several for the past year, and have found them invaluable. My main use is just prototyping, it is easier and cheaper to test some parts with a printer before wasting the time and metal to cut them on a real machine, and it uses the same CAM files I am already using. They make pretty sturdy parts also, I tested a few printed gears (around 2") and had a two step 3:1 gearbox spinning at 7200rpm with a load and they were holding up just fine.

I see all kinds of future applications of this type. Maybe in the future they will define printed baffles as "wipes" and make it legal to replace them; they would work great in a .22 can..
"If you are mad as hell and aren't going to take it anymore, grab your rifle and head outside.
If you're the only dumbass with a rifle screaming like a maniac, go back inside. It isn't time yet."

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Re: 3-D Printing WSJ 18 June 2014

Post by gunny50 » Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:44 am

mx201er wrote:I am planning on picking up a 3d printer in the next month or so.. I have had access for several for the past year, and have found them invaluable. My main use is just prototyping, it is easier and cheaper to test some parts with a printer before wasting the time and metal to cut them on a real machine, and it uses the same CAM files I am already using. They make pretty sturdy parts also, I tested a few printed gears (around 2") and had a two step 3:1 gearbox spinning at 7200rpm with a load and they were holding up just fine.

I see all kinds of future applications of this type. Maybe in the future they will define printed baffles as "wipes" and make it legal to replace them; they would work great in a .22 can..
mx201er
What printer and material are you using, as there is a huge difference in quality of printers products.

Gunny

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Re: 3-D Printing WSJ 18 June 2014

Post by Historian » Fri Jun 20, 2014 7:58 am

mx201er wrote:I am planning on picking up a 3d printer in the next month or so.. I have had access for several for the past year, and have found them invaluable. My main use is just prototyping, it is easier and cheaper to test some parts with a printer before wasting the time and metal to cut them on a real machine, and it uses the same CAM files I am already using. They make pretty sturdy parts also, I tested a few printed gears (around 2") and had a two step 3:1 gearbox spinning at 7200rpm with a load and they were holding up just fine.

I see all kinds of future applications of this type. Maybe in the future they will define printed baffles as "wipes" and make it legal to replace them; they would work great in a .22 can..
+1

May your words turn to gold, as the Ancient Greek saying goes!

A wonderful step toward proportionality in bureaucratic efforts.

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Re: 3-D Printing WSJ 18 June 2014

Post by wp6529 » Sun Jun 22, 2014 10:13 am

For prototyping parts that will ultimately be made in metal, we have long used machinable wax to test CNC code in place on the actual machines that will produce the finished part. Minimal wear on the cutters, and you can crank up the speeds and feeds thus having the completed test piece in far less time than with a 3D printer.

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Re: 3-D Printing WSJ 18 June 2014

Post by paper9 » Sun Jun 22, 2014 12:35 pm

I thought this at Oceania-Defense.

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Re: 3-D Printing WSJ 18 June 2014

Post by Meche_03 » Sun Jun 22, 2014 9:58 pm

wp6529 wrote:For prototyping parts that will ultimately be made in metal, we have long used machinable wax to test CNC code in place on the actual machines that will produce the finished part. Minimal wear on the cutters, and you can crank up the speeds and feeds thus having the completed test piece in far less time than with a 3D printer.
I've done this, but a 3d printer can be easier and faster depending on your office to shop layout and process plan. If I want a prototype part at work, I can model it, then I send a work request to the machine shop, the shop sends a job request to nc programing, who then asked for the model from me, then nc programming takes a week or two depending on priority, then the cone goes to the shop that takes a week or two depending on priority to try the code, usually it is wrong...repeat, repeat until part is right......now 2 months later I get my prototype

Or I model it, push the model through some slicing software that programs my 3d printer, load the program on the printer and push the start button, while never leaving the office.....3 hours later pock up part and test it for fit, size, cosmetic design.......repeat, repeat until design is done and needs a material change to be functional. Larger parts take longer while small parts take less time.

A coworker and I passed files back and forth one day and did 3 iterations of a prototype with a physical model printed each time during one work day. It really helps some people to see a prototype or idea and not just a drawing or computer image. It really helped us get a few jobs because we could hand our customer the solution to their problem in a day.


What any decent 3d printer does is remove the necessity of owning machine tools, fixtures, material and a machinist that knows how to use them all together. You can not mass produce parts but you can design and then outsource later to mass produce.
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Re: 3-D Printing WSJ 18 June 2014

Post by wp6529 » Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:06 pm

Certainly a 3D printer can overcome the inherent inefficiencies in a commercial environment as you noted. In the home shop environment where I am the designer, CNC programmer, machinist, etc. and it's a short stroll from the CAD system in the home office out to the shop with the CNC mill the efficiencies are a bit different.

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Re: 3-D Printing WSJ 18 June 2014

Post by Meche_03 » Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:43 pm

I will agree. I have one caveat, when I walk away from the $3k 3d printer while it is running I don't feel as nervous as walking away from the $120k mill. The whole damn printer, which can't tear its self up to bad doesn't cost as much as my vise, and 4th axis rotary table on the mill, which can mill the hell out off my tooling when things go bad.
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Re: 3-D Printing WSJ 18 June 2014

Post by wp6529 » Tue Jun 24, 2014 10:03 am

My shop budget is a wee bit smaller, my used Lagunmatic 320 CNC mill cost me a whole lot less. I'm still a bit nervous leaving it unatended, but I have once or twice while it was in a long section of consistent code such as drilling holes for a dividing head plate I was missing. Biggest risk there would be breaking the 1/8" bit and air drilling where the holes should be.

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Re: 3-D Printing WSJ 18 June 2014

Post by mx201er » Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:32 pm

gunny50 wrote:
mx201er wrote:I am planning on picking up a 3d printer in the next month or so.. I have had access for several for the past year, and have found them invaluable. My main use is just prototyping, it is easier and cheaper to test some parts with a printer before wasting the time and metal to cut them on a real machine, and it uses the same CAM files I am already using. They make pretty sturdy parts also, I tested a few printed gears (around 2") and had a two step 3:1 gearbox spinning at 7200rpm with a load and they were holding up just fine.

I see all kinds of future applications of this type. Maybe in the future they will define printed baffles as "wipes" and make it legal to replace them; they would work great in a .22 can..
mx201er
What printer and material are you using, as there is a huge difference in quality of printers products.

Gunny
I have just been using PLA, which is not the strongest. The printer that I am getting will also be able to use ABS, which is supposed to be stronger I believe..
"If you are mad as hell and aren't going to take it anymore, grab your rifle and head outside.
If you're the only dumbass with a rifle screaming like a maniac, go back inside. It isn't time yet."

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Re: 3-D Printing WSJ 18 June 2014

Post by gunny50 » Fri Jun 27, 2014 10:02 am

mx201er wrote:
gunny50 wrote:
mx201er wrote:I am planning on picking up a 3d printer in the next month or so.. I have had access for several for the past year, and have found them invaluable. My main use is just prototyping, it is easier and cheaper to test some parts with a printer before wasting the time and metal to cut them on a real machine, and it uses the same CAM files I am already using. They make pretty sturdy parts also, I tested a few printed gears (around 2") and had a two step 3:1 gearbox spinning at 7200rpm with a load and they were holding up just fine.

I see all kinds of future applications of this type. Maybe in the future they will define printed baffles as "wipes" and make it legal to replace them; they would work great in a .22 can..
mx201er
What printer and material are you using, as there is a huge difference in quality of printers products.

Gunny
I have just been using PLA, which is not the strongest. The printer that I am getting will also be able to use ABS, which is supposed to be stronger I believe..

ABS is great for printing functional parts that you want to test, feel around, grips etc.
I do not use it to test parts for high stress etc, but one can get a piece that you can talk around with with your customer.

Gunny

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