Wipes to combat FRP in compact cans?

Fulmen · Post by **Fulmen** » Tue Jul 08, 2014 4:53 am

I've started playing with more compact cans, the latest is one for 32ACP measuring 1.2" x 4.7". Performance is actually not so bad except for a horrendous FRP. Water works of course, and I'm looking at less volatile alternatives that will stay for extended periods without evaporating. Could wipes be another route? I'm digging through the forum as we speak, but it's hard work. Any pointers to threads where wipes are discussed in detail? I don't really care for wipes as they wear out and affect accuracy, but it'll be fun if I can get down to Hollywood size & performance.

doubloon · Post by **doubloon** » Tue Jul 08, 2014 6:32 am

There are a few threads on the Nano, Poseidon and Welrod suppressors but I don't recall seeing a significant number of threads on wiped suppressors in general that weren't poo-pooed before they got very far with observations like "wipes are a waste of time suppressor technology has advanced beyond the wipe".

The threads on the Nano, Poseidon and Welrod are probably the most useful for gleaning any amount of technical information about wipe size, thickness, material and whether or not predrilled wipes provide any benefit.

What kind of details are you looking for?

ETA: oops I forgot about the intermittent thread on the econo-can which is more or less technically a "wiped" suppressor.

delta9mda · Post by **delta9mda** » Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:05 am

wipes do not control frp. first chamber size or lack of is the key

Fulmen · Post by **Fulmen** » Wed Jul 09, 2014 2:01 am

Dubloon: Thanks for the pointers, I'll study these designs further.

Delta9mda: My thought was to increase the blast chamber and use wipes to increase suppression, in my experience the overall performance suffers if you reduce the number of baffles.

I gotta admit I have no experience with wipes whatsoever, never paid any attention to it until now. For my rifles I don't want anything to upset the bullet, but this is a handgun silencer where performance and size are the primary goals. Running the can wet is probably the simplest solution, and indeed the can was silly quiet with water. But it's messy as heck, unless I find a non-drying alternative that doesn't smoke as bad as oil I don't see it as a practical solution.

So what are my options? Increasing size is out of the question, if anything I want it even smaller.

doubloon · Post by **doubloon** » Wed Jul 09, 2014 6:40 am

Thompson's solution was to run their suppressor with wipes at both ends. Wire pulling gel will keep for quite a while in this "sealed" configuration and has the advantage of staying in whatever chamber you put it regardless of the suppressor orientation.

I do recall some complaints about accuracy and ultimately I believe Thompson recommended either not using the first wipe or at least using a thinner neoprene because a few people may have experienced a tumble but I don't recall all the exact details.

It seems the more wipes you have the more probability there is for the bullet to stray off path or not exit the suppressor at all. Pre-puncturing the wipes supposedly help.

This thread has some detail on the Welrod which has a near legendary reputation but it's not exactly compact depending on how you define compact viewtopic.php?f=17&t=105924

According to one of the links in that thread the Welrod achieved suppression down to 71dB-81dB 10ft from the muzzle with no actual blast chamber at all depending on ammo. There is an audio recording at the link as well.

Fulmen · Post by **Fulmen** » Sun Jul 20, 2014 12:36 pm

A combination of gel and wipes did the trick, I used a 6mm (3x2mm) wipe with a 4mm hole in the front, and now we're talking movie-quiet. Next is to test with a rear wipe as well...

L1A1Rocker · Post by **L1A1Rocker** » Sun Jul 20, 2014 1:47 pm

Fulmen wrote:A combination of gel and wipes did the trick, I used a 6mm (3x2mm) wipe with a 4mm hole in the front, and now we're talking movie-quiet. Next is to test with a rear wipe as well...

Excellent! I'm glad to hear you are having success in your efforts. You wouldn't happen to have pics would you?

jlwilliams · Post by **jlwilliams** » Sun Jul 20, 2014 2:11 pm

I've heard that shaving cream works well and stays put longer than water but I've never tried it. It sounds like a huge mess, but maybe it's not so bad.

Bendersquint · Post by **Bendersquint** » Sun Jul 20, 2014 2:40 pm

doubloon wrote: According to one of the links in that thread the Welrod achieved suppression down to 71dB-81dB 10ft from the muzzle with no actual blast chamber at all depending on ammo.

That quote has been debunked many times over, they were not using the standard of testing that we get our measurements from.

The Welrod while an awesome little gun is not THAT quiet and yes, I have shot them.

Bendersquint · Post by **Bendersquint** » Sun Jul 20, 2014 2:43 pm

jlwilliams wrote:I've heard that shaving cream works well and stays put longer than water but I've never tried it. It sounds like a huge mess, but maybe it's not so bad.

Yes, shaving cream works well and looks cool when shot. Last a shorter time than H2O but seemed quieter.

Fulmen · Post by **Fulmen** » Sun Jul 20, 2014 2:51 pm

Sorry, no pics for now. I still have a few tests to conduct, I'll see if I can't put it in the documented builds-thread.

As for the gel I might have hit pay dirt with a nonvolatile, odorless, nontoxic low-smoke gel. I just smeared a dab on each baffle and after 10+ shots I don't seem to have consumed any significant amount. No significant blowback either, nor has anything leaked out in two days of storage. And that includes it being in my back pack while I crashed my bike

gunny50 · Post by **gunny50** » Sun Jul 20, 2014 9:03 pm

Bendersquint wrote:
doubloon wrote: According to one of the links in that thread the Welrod achieved suppression down to 71dB-81dB 10ft from the muzzle with no actual blast chamber at all depending on ammo.
That quote has been debunked many times over, they were not using the standard of testing that we get our measurements from.
The Welrod while an awesome little gun is not THAT quiet and yes, I have shot them.

It uses a ported barrel section, that section is huge volume in relation to a first chamber in a basic modern screw on boosted or non boosted silencer.
Shown Welrod core is with leather wipes, and shot dry.
A core like that with the same flat baffles but a modern wipe material and filled with wet technology, being foam, water, water based wire pulling gel, or even grease for that matter etc etc. would outperform its original in reduction

It might not be as SILENT as some might expect but we should not forget these masterpieces where made MANY MANY years ago.

Gunny

jlwilliams · Post by **jlwilliams** » Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:27 pm

Bendersquint wrote:
doubloon wrote: According to one of the links in that thread the Welrod achieved suppression down to 71dB-81dB 10ft from the muzzle with no actual blast chamber at all depending on ammo.

]
That quote has been debunked many times over, they were not using the standard of testing that we get our measurements from.

The Welrod while an awesome little gun is not THAT quiet and yes, I have shot them.

I'm not surprised to hear that the Welrod isn't as super quiet as legend would have it. Stories of how quiet WWII silencers were are like stories of .45 ball ammo knocking Nazis into a back flip. Eye witness recollections have way of evolving over the fullness of time. I'm sure that compared to any other gun anybody who shot one back then had ever heard before, it was spooky quiet. There is no historically arguing if it was quiet enough for real life and death wet work. There is also no denying that silencer technology (even just the materials available) is just way, way more advanced today than it ever has been.

It must have been a treat to shoot one.

doubloon · Post by **doubloon** » Sun Jul 20, 2014 11:08 pm

Bendersquint wrote:...

That quote has been debunked many times over, they were not using the standard of testing that we get our measurements from.

The Welrod while an awesome little gun is not THAT quiet and yes, I have shot them.

I believe you, many airguns struggle to break 80dB quiet.

Bendersquint · Post by **Bendersquint** » Sun Jul 20, 2014 11:21 pm

jlwilliams wrote:
Bendersquint wrote:
doubloon wrote: According to one of the links in that thread the Welrod achieved suppression down to 71dB-81dB 10ft from the muzzle with no actual blast chamber at all depending on ammo.

]
That quote has been debunked many times over, they were not using the standard of testing that we get our measurements from.

The Welrod while an awesome little gun is not THAT quiet and yes, I have shot them.
I'm not surprised to hear that the Welrod isn't as super quiet as legend would have it. Stories of how quiet WWII silencers were are like stories of .45 ball ammo knocking Nazis into a back flip. Eye witness recollections have way of evolving over the fullness of time. I'm sure that compared to any other gun anybody who shot one back then had ever heard before, it was spooky quiet. There is no historically arguing if it was quiet enough for real life and death wet work. There is also no denying that silencer technology (even just the materials available) is just way, way more advanced today than it ever has been.

It must have been a treat to shoot one.

Compared to unsuppressed its pretty quiet, especially if you have never heard a suppressed firearm before. Compare it to modern standards and its like comparing a YHM Mite to an AAC Element on a pistol. The difference is significant.

It was cool to shoot it but overall I expected alot more and left disappointed.

gunny50 · Post by **gunny50** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:43 am

Bendersquint wrote:
It was cool to shoot it but overall I expected alot more and left disappointed.

Bender did you shoot the 9 or 32?

Gunny

Bendersquint · Post by **Bendersquint** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:58 am

gunny50 wrote:
Bendersquint wrote:
It was cool to shoot it but overall I expected alot more and left disappointed.

Bender did you shoot the 9 or 32?

Gunny

9mm

Wipes to combat FRP in compact cans?

Wipes to combat FRP in compact cans?

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