Which cut works best clipped cones?

[sizulku]

Hi All,

I see there are some different cut for clipped cones. I would like to know which one is work best.

half moon shapes cut






half face shapes cut

[Bendersquint]

There is no real answer to this as each scoop/port/clip works with the baffle it is used on.

[Dr.K]

Don't over think it. They all serve the same purpose.

In general, I try to cut away enough material that would equal the area displaced by the projectiles cross section at the diameter.

[L1A1Rocker]

Don't over think it. They all serve the same purpose.

In general, I try to cut away enough material that would equal the area displaced by the projectiles cross section at the diameter.

Would you mind saying that in English?

[Dr.K]

Don't over think it. They all serve the same purpose.

In general, I try to cut away enough material that would equal the area displaced by the projectiles cross section at the diameter.

Would you mind saying that in English?

like for 30 caliber, the area about as big around as a pencil is what I'd clip out of the baffle.

For 50 caliber, size of a dime.....like that.

I don't even measure my clipped portions, just eyeball it, and it has worked fine for me.

Every can design is different though, and must be taken into account!

[L1A1Rocker]

Don't over think it. They all serve the same purpose.

In general, I try to cut away enough material that would equal the area displaced by the projectiles cross section at the diameter.

Would you mind saying that in English?

like for 30 caliber, the area about as big around as a pencil is what I'd clip out of the baffle.

For 50 caliber, size of a dime.....like that.

I don't even measure my clipped portions, just eyeball it, and it has worked fine for me.

Every can design is different though, and must be taken into account!

I get it now, thank you.

[dex]

Do clipped cones in super sonic applications always work better when asymmetric?

Instead of hogging out one side with a big endmill, how about splitting the bore with a smaller endmill right through the centerline then alternating the cones 90˚ to eachother on down the line.

If it weren't for the ATF prohibiting Form 1 hobbyist R&D I'd just go find out for myself instead I'm here seeking guidance. Is asymmetry quieter or less influential on PoI or what?

Example;

[Capt. Link.]

Instead of hogging out one side with a big endmill, how about splitting the bore with a smaller endmill right through the centerline then alternating the cones 90˚ to eachother on down the line.

Example;

How would you describe the gas flow with this symmetric ported cone over a non ported cone and vs a asymmetric ported cone.Will these be tightly stacked together or widely spaced.

[a_canadian]

Yeah. The symmetrical version seems to just barely let the flow move outwards before each small jet is colliding with the other back in mid stream. Asymmetrical clipping should push the flow out of the bore line into space otherwise used only for raw gas expansion, generating sound-damping, energy absorbing chaos. You probably want asymmetry. And hugging the bore line. Seems to me leaving a bit of extra metal ahead of the entry point to allow for a bore line hugging clip/vent probably influences cross flow better than a clip which cuts into the inside of the cone leaving a larger diameter bore hole.

[dex]

With baffles spaced about .600" I was thinking that the gasses would fan out like water from a garden hose with a similar nozzle. Another baffle indexed 90˚ would peel off the gas pushed off center.

I was just wondering as this thread was saying that the asymmetric baffles were affecting PoI and dB depending on orientation.

[Capt. Link.]

With baffles spaced about .600" I was thinking that the gasses would fan out like water from a garden hose with a similar nozzle. Another baffle indexed 90˚ would peel off the gas pushed off center.

I was just wondering as this thread was saying that the asymmetric baffles were affecting PoI and dB depending on orientation.

My question was to get you thinking.A non ported cone strips gases from the stream.The gases that have been stripped behave in a a very organized fashion before they pass through the bore.The bore size dictates on how much passes through.I think that the double ported symmetric cone will pass much more gas without a huge effect on the gases as far as organization time goes.An asymmetric port adds chaos and delay before the gases get organized enough to pass through the orifice.Its the time factor that permits cooling and expansion of the gases so the pressure is (reduced) our goal.The baffle you describe may need more of them over a simple cone for suppression but would exhibit very low back-pressure a desirable trait for a semi auto host.Testing would provide the best answers.Until you test you will not know so for the time I would use a baffle that has been tried or you can test each of your ideas a tax stamp at a time.This is not that much of a handicap as the money and the exorbitant amount of time needed for a 02/07 makes getting stamps a sane proposition.If you find a superb baffle you can then re-core all of the test tubes after you obtain the 02/07.

The POI shift is not common and was mentioned with the use of a proprietary baffle by one of our members.
Most of us acknowledge lining up the ports will not increase the spl of the suppressor in question.

I do think that the baffle has merit but the spacing and choice of cartridge would make a difference.I could see this in a long slim 5.56 suppressor with a gas operated host.Keep up the creative thought. CL

[dex]

I've got no gas gun, just a bolt action, but I have another form 1 where I can try one with clipping and one without on the same baffle design. Thanks.

[Fulmen]

asymmetric baffles were affecting PoI and dB depending on orientation.

That's a question without a definitive answer. Any asymmetrical flow has the ability to affect the bullet, but mostly with extreme designs or very tight tolerances. Even a modest amount of asymmetry seems to improve performance in some cases, if you look at this design it's basically an asymmetrical flat washer, yet the performance is miles apart.
Since all cans usually affects POI simply by it's weight you have to factor that in anyways, so a slight additional change from asymmetry isn't always a big issue, some times they should even cancel each others out to a degree and give less change. But yes, in my experience it does affect POI somewhat. Stacking so it's cumulate effect cancels itself out is the safest approach, and the dB-difference is usually slight.

[Historian]

I hope I will not be accused of being Anti-Symmetric ( )
but from a long ago familiarity with fluid logic and its applications to real time missile
flight controls intuitively I would tend to avoid any major asymmetry in an ~90º direction
to the path of hot percussive gases.

If you have every held a high pressure fire hose or have seen a high pressure
cylinder spinning wildly due to a 'sudden hole' put into its side you would have a sense
of where this gut feeling comes from.

Just an thought.

[Capt. Link.]

I hope I will not be accused of being Anti-Symmetric ( )
but from a long ago familiarity with fluid logic and its applications to real time missile
flight controls intuitively I would tend to avoid any major asymmetry in an ~90º direction
to the path of hot percussive gases.

If you have every held a high pressure fire hose or have seen a high pressure
cylinder spinning wildly due to a 'sudden hole' put into its side you would have a sense
of where this gut feeling comes from.

Just an thought.

I have never seen a high pressure cylinder spinning because the last one I saw had its valve assembly broken off and was shot from the sub base to the carrier docks in San Diego.The one before was a CO2 cartridge that passed through 3 walls of my neighbors house after I placed it upon a can of Sterno and the end cap blew out.
The most successful baffles of all times use gas jets that do cross at 90* without disturbing bullet flight.A good technical paper that shows that the bullet is gone before much pressure can influence it is the THE ARMY FRANKFORD ARSENAL REPORT R.1896.The oscilloscope tracing's have some very good information on this subject.
Anti-Symmetry leads to UN-balanced thought!