are some fully sealed cans made this way (ie. welds only)?

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BearTHIS
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are some fully sealed cans made this way (ie. welds only)?

Post by BearTHIS » Tue Aug 05, 2014 10:50 am

I'm pretty sure there are some but I may have mistaken the design as a core w/ spacers that was then put inside a tube.

Basically, imagine a bunch of baffles that are fully welded along their seems, no outer tube. Is this actually done or am I mistaken?

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Re: are some fully sealed cans made this way (ie. welds only

Post by SPdotCOM » Tue Aug 05, 2014 11:26 am

Hi,

This type of Cans already exist: Tubeless.

Beside checking for the corresponding legalities in USA, it's plenty of them out there (welded, threaded, tensed, rigid, rotational, ...)

Best,

Paul
www.Silencer-Plans.com

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Re: are some fully sealed cans made this way (ie. welds only

Post by delta9mda » Tue Aug 05, 2014 1:54 pm

Yes AAC did. Also there vids of Robert shooting m42000 without outer tube. All welded core, it worked.
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Re: are some fully sealed cans made this way (ie. welds only

Post by gunny50 » Tue Aug 05, 2014 2:55 pm

We do for several years on some models
Griffin does with the Recce 5 and Recce 7 sound suppressors
Ase utra does with several models as far as I know.
And I'm sure there are more

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Re: are some fully sealed cans made this way (ie. welds only

Post by Bendersquint » Tue Aug 05, 2014 2:56 pm

delta9mda wrote:Yes AAC did. Also there vids of Robert shooting m42000 without outer tube. All welded core, it worked.
What AAC can was made with welded together spacers/baffles with no outer tube....not talking about the one that Robert shot to show strength. I am talking production can.

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Re: are some fully sealed cans made this way (ie. welds only

Post by delta9mda » Tue Aug 05, 2014 3:59 pm

Being an 07 I refrain from talking about others. Lol

It was a prototype thread on all I can say bit it was done.
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Re: are some fully sealed cans made this way (ie. welds only

Post by delta9mda » Tue Aug 05, 2014 4:02 pm

The recce from griffin appear to have a tube over the welded core but I could be mistaken.
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Re: are some fully sealed cans made this way (ie. welds only

Post by Bendersquint » Tue Aug 05, 2014 5:09 pm

delta9mda wrote:Being an 07 I refrain from talking about others. Lol

It was a prototype thread on all I can say bit it was done.
I am talking about commercially available cans, not prototypes or not for sale items.

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Re: are some fully sealed cans made this way (ie. welds only

Post by delta9mda » Tue Aug 05, 2014 7:52 pm

Yes I know I specified.
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Re: are some fully sealed cans made this way (ie. welds only

Post by gunny50 » Wed Aug 06, 2014 8:48 am

delta9mda wrote:The recce from griffin appear to have a tube over the welded core but I could be mistaken.
From what I can see online and what I have seen at the shotshow ( section of silencer) I would say the Recce is made from sections welded together and NO outer tube.
Image
Image
Image

Check contour of ribbed part at the connecting end of welded parts and finished parts.
Looks to me like welded and outside turned.

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Re: are some fully sealed cans made this way (ie. welds only

Post by LavaRed » Wed Aug 06, 2014 2:49 pm

I made an can with baffles that threaded together years ago, for .22LR. It was very good for experiments, as I could tune the length and other characteristics, and the tests and results obtained from it spawned a whole family of suppressors and concepts, but it was impractical for everyday use. Basically, you needed to have 1/8" thick walls for the threading to work, and that's just too heavy and wasteful of internal volume, or you end up with a very thick can on the outside.

I feel that fully welding the core inside a tube creates the same problem, i.e., it wastes volume. I think there's better ways to accomplish the same results, like welding the spacers to the baffles, and with spacers that are more like the bore's diameter. But that's just me.
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Re: are some fully sealed cans made this way (ie. welds only

Post by Bendersquint » Wed Aug 06, 2014 3:14 pm

LavaRed wrote:I made an can with baffles that threaded together years ago, for .22LR. It was very good for experiments, as I could tune the length and other characteristics, and the tests and results obtained from it spawned a whole family of suppressors and concepts, but it was impractical for everyday use. Basically, you needed to have 1/8" thick walls for the threading to work, and that's just too heavy and wasteful of internal volume, or you end up with a very thick can on the outside.

I feel that fully welding the core inside a tube creates the same problem, i.e., it wastes volume. I think there's better ways to accomplish the same results, like welding the spacers to the baffles, and with spacers that are more like the bore's diameter. But that's just me.
For a rimfire you need around .065" wall thickness for good threading when connecting baffles like that.

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Re: are some fully sealed cans made this way (ie. welds only

Post by gunny50 » Wed Aug 06, 2014 4:20 pm

Bendersquint wrote:
For a rimfire you need around .065" wall thickness for good threading when connecting baffles like that.
All depending material specs, did several 9mm Tubeless models with 1,5mm wall in 7075.
Plenty strong, in Ti and 316 one can go thinner. Think waves, thicker / higher where the threads are, thinner in between.
Waves has an advantage that there are no sharp corners so stronger in the end as well.

Gunny

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Re: are some fully sealed cans made this way (ie. welds only

Post by Bendersquint » Wed Aug 06, 2014 4:22 pm

gunny50 wrote:
Bendersquint wrote:
For a rimfire you need around .065" wall thickness for good threading when connecting baffles like that.
All depending material specs, did several 9mm Tubeless models with 1,5mm wall in 7075.
Plenty strong, in Ti and 316 one can go thinner. Think waves, thicker / higher where the threads are, thinner in between.
Waves has an advantage that there are no sharp corners so stronger in the end as well.

Gunny
If you are cutting threads properly then you won't have sharp corners in there and they will be rounded.

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Re: are some fully sealed cans made this way (ie. welds only

Post by renegade » Wed Aug 06, 2014 5:26 pm

Image

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Re: are some fully sealed cans made this way (ie. welds only

Post by gunny50 » Thu Aug 07, 2014 6:37 am

Bendersquint wrote:
gunny50 wrote:
Bendersquint wrote:
For a rimfire you need around .065" wall thickness for good threading when connecting baffles like that.
All depending material specs, did several 9mm Tubeless models with 1,5mm wall in 7075.
Plenty strong, in Ti and 316 one can go thinner. Think waves, thicker / higher where the threads are, thinner in between.
Waves has an advantage that there are no sharp corners so stronger in the end as well.

Gunny
If you are cutting threads properly then you won't have sharp corners in there and they will be rounded.

Bender,
I was not talking about the threads, I was talking about outside contour of the tube sections of the tubeles-baffles.
Where the threads are wall is thicker than where the tubular section is, making curves / waves there is making it stronger and lighter.
Cutting on cnc with full contour inserts will give nice rounded threads.

Gunny

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Re: are some fully sealed cans made this way (ie. welds only

Post by Bendersquint » Thu Aug 07, 2014 2:13 pm

gunny50 wrote:
Bender,
I was not talking about the threads, I was talking about outside contour of the tube sections of the tubeles-baffles.
Where the threads are wall is thicker than where the tubular section is, making curves / waves there is making it stronger and lighter.
Cutting on cnc with full contour inserts will give nice rounded threads.

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Re: are some fully sealed cans made this way (ie. welds only

Post by LavaRed » Sat Aug 09, 2014 11:53 pm

Bendersquint wrote:
LavaRed wrote:I made an can with baffles that threaded together years ago, for .22LR. It was very good for experiments, as I could tune the length and other characteristics, and the tests and results obtained from it spawned a whole family of suppressors and concepts, but it was impractical for everyday use. Basically, you needed to have 1/8" thick walls for the threading to work, and that's just too heavy and wasteful of internal volume, or you end up with a very thick can on the outside.

I feel that fully welding the core inside a tube creates the same problem, i.e., it wastes volume. I think there's better ways to accomplish the same results, like welding the spacers to the baffles, and with spacers that are more like the bore's diameter. But that's just me.
For a rimfire you need around .065" wall thickness for good threading when connecting baffles like that.
I never tried to go that thin. That's good to know. It would have made my can far thinner and lighter. At the time I didn't trust the aluminium to hold up.
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Re: are some fully sealed cans made this way (ie. welds only

Post by gunny50 » Sun Aug 10, 2014 8:40 am

LavaRed wrote:
Bendersquint wrote:
LavaRed wrote:I made an can with baffles that threaded together years ago, for .22LR. It was very good for experiments, as I could tune the length and other characteristics, and the tests and results obtained from it spawned a whole family of suppressors and concepts, but it was impractical for everyday use. Basically, you needed to have 1/8" thick walls for the threading to work, and that's just too heavy and wasteful of internal volume, or you end up with a very thick can on the outside.

I feel that fully welding the core inside a tube creates the same problem, i.e., it wastes volume. I think there's better ways to accomplish the same results, like welding the spacers to the baffles, and with spacers that are more like the bore's diameter. But that's just me.
For a rimfire you need around .065" wall thickness for good threading when connecting baffles like that.
I never tried to go that thin. That's good to know. It would have made my can far thinner and lighter. At the time I didn't trust the aluminium to hold up.

Lava
check the Enfield posts, he did a test where he turns the outside diameter down every few rounds to see how it holds up.
Gunny

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Re: are some fully sealed cans made this way (ie. welds only

Post by Hanleyrtcc » Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:19 am

Is there a disadvantage with fully welded baffle style can when it comes time to clean it and/or inspect how things are holding up in there?

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Re: are some fully sealed cans made this way (ie. welds only

Post by john.t.little1 » Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:50 pm

Not if you have a bore scope
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Re: are some fully sealed cans made this way (ie. welds only

Post by Hanleyrtcc » Tue Aug 12, 2014 6:06 pm

Whats a bore scope gonna do when you want to replace a baffle or clean out all the nooks and cranny's? Or if it is form 1 does it have to be fully welded?

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Re: are some fully sealed cans made this way (ie. welds only

Post by Bendersquint » Tue Aug 12, 2014 6:39 pm

Hanleyrtcc wrote:Whats a bore scope gonna do when you want to replace a baffle or clean out all the nooks and cranny's? Or if it is form 1 does it have to be fully welded?
A bore scope will help you inspect it and nothing more.

Form1's do not have to be welded.

If your can is ever in need of repair you will have to hire a licensed manufacturer to do the work for you anyways as the maker of the Form1 can can't replace components.

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Re: are some fully sealed cans made this way (ie. welds only

Post by john.t.little1 » Tue Aug 12, 2014 7:02 pm

Majority of F1's will be welded and when people want to clean them the general consensus is do a mag dump... As bender said you'll need to hire someone to fix a baffle that's destroyed but if you build it right and don't abuse it in my mind by the time it needs fixing just do another F1 and retire the original.
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Re: are some fully sealed cans made this way (ie. welds only

Post by Hanleyrtcc » Tue Aug 12, 2014 8:13 pm

I'm just getting into this myself and I appreciate all the replies and info. So why is it that you can build one but not repair it? I completely believe that is true but why? Where can I read that particular fact and for that matter any other possible legal infractions that are inherent in a Form 1 project. I have not submitted my paperwork yet but I am about to and I am just making sure I know what I am getting into. The materials, machining and welding skills are no problem. Its just thing like the "not being able to repair it your self" type stuff. how would anyone know I repaired it anyway? just saying. Again, thanks to all, this seems to be a great forum!!!

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