Lathe tooling? HSS, Inserts and brazed carbide?

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ken226
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Lathe tooling? HSS, Inserts and brazed carbide?

Post by ken226 » Sat Oct 11, 2014 9:27 am

I've been using 3/8 and 1/2 hss tooling for years because of the low cost and versatility. Always purchased as blanks and shaped on a belt sander / bench grinder.

On the occasion that i need to turn something hardened, i break out a brazed 1/2 carbide tool, but that need doesn't pop up very often. I've used the brazed carbide occasionaly on 4130 and 4140 but even at the slowest feed rate, with a .05 depth of cut and .004 feed per revolution, it leaves a decent surface finish but it seems to be taking way too much force for the lathe to feed it through the material. When feeding by hand, it takes about 4x the force to move the brazed carbide through the steel than hss. The brazed carbide cutters arent very sharp, and don't appear to have any rake.

I've never used insert type tooling and am considering buying a set. How well do the TCMT and CCMT insert type tooling work? I don't want to spend the money if they arent any better than brazed carbide. The appear to have a good about of rake, a chip breaker and look nice and sharp, but im just guessing about that since ive only seen pictures :)

How do they stack up to the brazed carbide type tooling?
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curtistactical
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Re: Lathe tooling? HSS, Inserts and brazed carbide?

Post by curtistactical » Sat Oct 11, 2014 9:44 am

You will never look back if you make the switch. I haven't used HSS or brazed tooling in 15 years. Look at the charts for the inserts you are buying to make sure they are designed for the material you plan on cutting. Smaller nose radius equals less cutting pressure and made more for finishing. I use a .0312 radius for roughing and a .0157 radius for finishing. The Kennametal top notch tooling is nice for threading and grooving. On manual lathes I prefer DNMG for roughing and VNMG for finishing. I use the TMxx tooling for boring bars.
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Capt. Link.
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Re: Lathe tooling? HSS, Inserts and brazed carbide?

Post by Capt. Link. » Sat Oct 11, 2014 10:17 am

Try these http://www.arwarnerco.com/ best of both worlds.
The only reason after 243 years the government now wants to disarm you is they intend to do something you would shoot them for!
http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=79895

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ken226
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Re: Lathe tooling? HSS, Inserts and brazed carbide?

Post by ken226 » Sat Oct 11, 2014 10:36 am

I love that there are HSS inserts available, thanks for the advice.

I ordered an AXA holder that takes the tcmt 3/8 triangle inserts. This one:
http://www.use-enco.com/1/1/33980-axa-1 ... lders.html

It uses the TMCT style traingular inserts, which appears to be very common with lots of options available.

And a selection of inserts in carbide and HSS from ARWarner. Thanks for the link BTW! Im eager to try them out.
02/07 FFL-SOT

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Re: Lathe tooling? HSS, Inserts and brazed carbide?

Post by L1A1Rocker » Sat Oct 11, 2014 2:31 pm

Have you ever sharpened your carbide inserts? Also, have you ever tried 10% Cobalt HSS?

I use carbide inserts all the time but the first thing I do is put them on the diamond hone grinding wheel to touch them up. I've just recently started playing with the 10% Cobalt HSS in gearing up to turn some titanium.

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ken226
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Re: Lathe tooling? HSS, Inserts and brazed carbide?

Post by ken226 » Sat Oct 11, 2014 8:39 pm

I've tried 10% cobalt drills, but not lathe tooling yet. I've been meaning to buy a diamond wheel to sharpen carbide, since i have a whole box of chipped and dull brazed lathe tooling. I'll still order a diamond wheel, but 10% cobalt blanks seem quite a bit more expensive than inserts.

I'll see if i can order a few just to try.
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Re: Lathe tooling? HSS, Inserts and brazed carbide?

Post by Historian » Sat Oct 11, 2014 10:09 pm

ken226 wrote:I've tried 10% cobalt drills, but not lathe tooling yet. I've been meaning to buy a diamond wheel to sharpen carbide, since i have a whole box of chipped and dull brazed lathe tooling. I'll still order a diamond wheel, but 10% cobalt blanks seem quite a bit more expensive than inserts.

I'll see if i can order a few just to try.
Was in same boat when I was given a box of dull brazed tools from buddy's widow some
years ago. I found that a 'green wheel' also will work quite well
on an old SEARS Crapsman ...I mean Craftsman ... bench grinder. :)

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Re: Lathe tooling? HSS, Inserts and brazed carbide?

Post by midaswhale » Mon Oct 13, 2014 12:37 am

Silicon carbide grinder wheels or "green wheels" are very efficient for sharpening any kind of carbide bit. Way cheaper than diamond wheels

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Re: Lathe tooling? HSS, Inserts and brazed carbide?

Post by wp6529 » Mon Oct 13, 2014 9:31 am

Once you get some holders and start using "real" insert tooling you'll tend to not use the brazed carbide tooling much, perhaps just for custom ground form tools. The inserts perform a lot better, particularly since most have chipbreaker profiles and they are supplied in a ready to run state vs. the brazed carbide tools which really need honing at a minimum before they work resonably well.

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Re: Lathe tooling? HSS, Inserts and brazed carbide?

Post by Kuraki » Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:13 am

I have a lot of indexable tooling at my disposal, and while I tend to use it exclusively for turning to diameter, threading and facing to length, I still have a drawer full of carbide brazed and HSS/Cobalt tools with custom rakes, forms, and purposes.

They take up very little space and can make or break a project if you're able to grind what you need.

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Re: Lathe tooling? HSS, Inserts and brazed carbide?

Post by Bendersquint » Mon Oct 20, 2014 12:37 pm

wp6529 wrote:Once you get some holders and start using "real" insert tooling you'll tend to not use the brazed carbide tooling much, perhaps just for custom ground form tools. The inserts perform a lot better, particularly since most have chipbreaker profiles and they are supplied in a ready to run state vs. the brazed carbide tools which really need honing at a minimum before they work resonably well.
Completely agree.

All my brazed tools are in a pile now since I switched to indexable. If you look around the inserts can be found of high quality for low price.

FWIW the indexable tooling last in my experience alot longer than the brazed too.

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Re: Lathe tooling? HSS, Inserts and brazed carbide?

Post by Bendersquint » Mon Oct 20, 2014 12:58 pm

ken226 wrote:I love that there are HSS inserts available, thanks for the advice.

I ordered an AXA holder that takes the tcmt 3/8 triangle inserts. This one:
http://www.use-enco.com/1/1/33980-axa-1 ... lders.html

It uses the TMCT style traingular inserts, which appears to be very common with lots of options available.

And a selection of inserts in carbide and HSS from ARWarner. Thanks for the link BTW! Im eager to try them out.
Just looked at Cpt Links' link...for those HSS prices you can buy quality carbide indexable inserts.

Personally while HSS is nice in some applications I go carbide before I think about HSS 99% of the time.

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Re: Lathe tooling? HSS, Inserts and brazed carbide?

Post by Capt. Link. » Mon Oct 20, 2014 2:33 pm

It's not cheap but 15% cobalt tools will take the shock and vibration that small lathes posses.Novice builders benefit from using HSS as its very forgiving and can be shaped to forms limited only by imagination.I think that everyone should at lease understand how to grind there own tools.

If Mr. B was not so modest he would post some of his work that only a top professional can do with carbide and huge amounts of skill.PM sent.
The only reason after 243 years the government now wants to disarm you is they intend to do something you would shoot them for!
http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=79895

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Re: Lathe tooling? HSS, Inserts and brazed carbide?

Post by Fulmen » Mon Oct 20, 2014 6:39 pm

I'll have to side with Bendersquint on this one, after you''ve tried proper inserts HSS becomes a 1% choice. If I need a tool that can't be bought or if it's for a one-time job HSS will always save the day, so start by learning how to grind a proper edge. But if it can be done with carbide that's what I'll choose every time. It's that much better.

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Re: Lathe tooling? HSS, Inserts and brazed carbide?

Post by Grounded » Fri Oct 24, 2014 4:26 pm

For my home lathe I recently picked up a set of tools from Mesa tool (www.mesatool.com) and have been pretty happy with their DPGB-21.51 inserts their turning tools come with. In the shop I usually stick with the kennametal stuff like the tnmg's.
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Re: Lathe tooling? HSS, Inserts and brazed carbide?

Post by BinaryAndy » Sat Nov 01, 2014 10:55 am

I have a couple of AR Warner holders and inserts. I've got their ID/OD threading tool and the ones for CCMW inserts here: http://www.arwarnerco.com/p-15-kit-11-1 ... -hand.aspx

I don't recommend the threading tool. The OD side of the tool is okay, but laydown inserts are better and more available. The ID side of the tool is just dumb. You can't thread anything with a minor diameter less than 1.375, which is ludicrously large for the size (and rigidity) of the tool.

The CCMW holders are very nice, I use them constantly. The HSS inserts, on the other hand, I haven't used in months. Common CCMT and CCGT inserts fit in the holders too. One of the holders uses the obtuse corners of the inserts, which is a wonderful feature, particularly since it means I can take and use all the dull CCMT inserts from work.

If you don't have a huge sturdy lathe, you should be looking at CCGT inserts. They're usually very sharp and have a very positive rake, which reduces their propensity to cause chatter and gives a good finish.
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Re: Lathe tooling? HSS, Inserts and brazed carbide?

Post by Cole2534 » Sun Nov 09, 2014 2:14 pm

Here's what I use on my lathe. They worked on my old SB 9 as well as they do on my 12" Monarch. I like them because sharpening tools by hand sucks, it's not why I'm in the shop. :)

http://latheinserts.com/TOOLS-FOR-HOBBY-LATHES_c82.htm

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