My Freeze plug baffle forming

[c5_nc]

The baffles at the start of this thread, what is the easiest method to get concentric center holes in the freeze plugs? Sorry if it's a ridiculous question just curious!

Ben

I used SD Tactical's jig ($19) with a 1/8" bit and drill. On the C tubes, the ID is 1.03 of the tube so you have to use SD Tactical's jig because it expands the rim to that OD.

On the 11 plugs I did I had 2 that were not centered that I destroyed, 3 that were perfect, 6 that were .005-.010" off center. I clipped the holes at the narrowest corner on those.

[friendlysniper]

The baffles at the start of this thread, what is the easiest method to get concentric center holes in the freeze plugs? Sorry if it's a ridiculous question just curious!

Ben

I used SD Tactical's jig ($19) with a 1/8" bit and drill. On the C tubes, the ID is 1.03 of the tube so you have to use SD Tactical's jig because it expands the rim to that OD.

On the 11 plugs I did I had 2 that were not centered that I destroyed, 3 that were perfect, 6 that were .005-.010" off center. I clipped the holes at the narrowest corner on those.

Are you using the dorman 555-104 freeze plugs? SDTA says that these no longer fit their centering tool/jig. I'm probably going to order a box from ebay anyway and see if I luck out and get old stock.

[c5_nc]

Sealed Power SEP 381-3179 for D tube 1.350
Sealed Power SEP 381-3016 for C tube 1.000

Are what I used for the maglite type tubes, the 1" is slightly oversized they work (after expanding for the 1.03" maglite tubes) but if you have a 1" diameter I used a Dorman part that was slightly smaller.

[ctravisc]

I tried this method using the Torx sockets, and for some reason, all of the holes came out oversized. I didn't measure because it wasn't just a couple hundredths. It was more like 3/8" when I'm shooting for 1/4". I tried using less force on each socket. I tried not using the largest socket, but couldn't get a deep enough cone without it. Has anyone else had a problem with this?

[c5_nc]

The forming is by the neck of the cone at the base of the torx, if you measure that that is what your hole size will be. You could have sockets that are thicker than the ones I used. You have to start with the small center and press just until the next torx size will fit. I posted the starting hole sizes I used. If you continue to have trouble buy a lathe center and start with a 1/8" hole.

[ctravisc]

Yeah, the lathe center and jaw puller cone was my next plan. Thanks for your help though. Great thread.

[c5_nc]

Yeah, the lathe center and jaw puller cone was my next plan. Thanks for your help though. Great thread.

You can just use a ball bearing or a cheap ball peen hammer to get the initial intent without having buy the puller just get that one part off it. This method is a lot more difficult, the Lathe center is over 4" and the pressing is much harder. Probably need a hydraulic press. It may be possible with a arbor press. A typical vise will not fit the parts, or be able crush them.

[1911rocks]

Yeah, the lathe center and jaw puller cone was my next plan. Thanks for your help though. Great thread.

You can just use a ball bearing or a cheap ball peen hammer to get the initial intent without having buy the puller just get that one part off it. This method is a lot more difficult, the Lathe center is over 4" and the pressing is much harder. Probably need a hydraulic press. It may be possible with a arbor press. A typical vise will not fit the parts, or be able crush them.

I use the ball bearing technique. It works flawlessly. Use different size Ball Bearings for different Calibers. I'll post pictures when return to CONUS.

[c5_nc]

I wanted to update with some disclosure. I have tested a Freeze Plug Can 7.6" OAL 8 baffles (.27 bore for 5.56) and Valve Retainer 8.9" OAL 7 baffles (.37" bore for 30cal). Both cans have worked fairly well in my opinion. The VR can I have made further improvements on (clipping and removing metal from the same VRs) since the videos were taken.

12.5" 5.56 AR-15
308 Can 8.375" 7 Valve Retainers, .37" Bore
223 Can 7" 8 Freeze Plugs .27" Bore
http://youtu.be/3vcML6kXUSo

9" 300blk AR-15
308 Can 8.375" 7 Valve Retainers, .37" Bore
http://youtu.be/zYBU_jdEFjY

4" 22lr AR-15
308 Can 8.375" 7 Valve Retainers, .37" Bore
223 Can 7" 8 Freeze Plugs .27" Bore
http://youtu.be/34rho6kbhBA

The 30cal can with the valve retainers sounded somewhat quieter to me.

My projected round count on the FP can is around 80 rounds. I do have some issues with the FP, the worst was the 4th one in the Stack. The blast baffle in the FP can was a Valve retainer, followed by the freeze plugs.





Second one with some premature wear:





Another person had posted their build which was a 30 caliber Freeze Plugs but it was being shot with 5.56, and they had 1500 rounds and their freeze plug has major erosion at the bore area.

[Racer 27]

Did you or the other poster harden the baffles?

[1911rocks]

Did you or the other poster harden the baffles?

I hardened the first two I've got 500rds through it out of a 7.5" barrel and they still look good......filthy, but good.

[Bt Doctur]

Aside from the automotive aspect of valve retainers, have you also checked the motorcycle motors

[InfiniteGrim]

Did you or the other poster harden the baffles?

He's not telling the whole story here on purpose here...

The guy that had erosion...... Had 1000 rounds through it without erosion.... Then did 2x 210 round of straight full auto through them (with a 5.56 SBR), had the can glowing red. The baffles were past 1000F and soft.. thats why they eroded...


But he specifically isn't mentioning that to make his point...

Link: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_20/43465 ... 2#i4234599

Can in Question after full auto:

[c5_nc]

Did you or the other poster harden the baffles?

No, I understand the carbon content is to low and you need to use the carbonizing powder to make it work.

[c5_nc]

But he specifically isn't mentioning that to make his point...

Not really. Bumpfiring several mags in a 5.56 can over several minutes is something a suppressor should be able to do without having non-replaceable damaged parts, the commercial cans I have seen haven't had an issue with real full auto fire. I am as invested into freeze plugs as much as anyone and I get questions on the parts and forming constantly form this site and others, and wanted to give everyone the full picture. On the (2) cans here in the question, I think a commercial can that gives a lifetime of service (We have had YHM 5.56 and SiCo Specwar 5.56s for $329/$399 would have probably been a better choice. In case I don't want a bunch of people pissed off with me a couple years from now because I didn't post the actual results. So here they are and everyone can make their own choices.

[cpy911]

One of the results in forming the FP's is the wall thickness is drawn down around the hole. On my experiment, to get to my 9mm diameter, the edge of the cone wall was .030", but fortunately quickly thickened to .040" and up.

Perhaps the wear on these FP's is due to the very thin walls at the hole interface that is seeing a lot of pressure. So, thin wall and high pressure is causing the thin walls to erode.

I plan to do Stainless Steel, form the wall thickness to be no less than .050" and then ream the hole to final dimension. Theoretically, this should last longer with a better material and thicker walls. Time will tell. Besides, I am having fun doing this...I have made worse mistakes that cost a lot more...

I think some rifle cans are NOT rated for FA. Part of the issue comes down to how you treat your stuff. My cars last a long time because I baby them. For shooting, I typically shoot aimed shots...don't like to just blow through ammo that I spent a lot of time to carefully reload. Ask me in a few years if my can is holding up...who knows...

[Mueller]

Where are you getting SS freeze plugs? I found some here, http://shop.whiteperformance.com/Freeze ... gs_c39.htm but the OD is too big to use in Appogee or SDTA tubes. According to what I can find, the SS plugs in these kits are larger than 1.35".

Thanks,
Chris

[c5_nc]

Where are you getting SS freeze plugs? I found some here, http://shop.whiteperformance.com/Freeze ... gs_c39.htm but the OD is too big to use in Appogee or SDTA tubes. According to what I can find, the SS plugs in these kits are larger than 1.35".

Thanks,
Chris

Diversified Machine has a Ti tube with 1.485" and 1.375" ID, and SS with 1.375" ID. The Apogee and SD Ti are 1.360", and Apogee and SD SS/Steel are 1.350. So the 1.375 (1 3/8") SS freeze plugs are a option for some tubes if they are sanded down because they are typically made to be pressed in. I guess they would be option for all, just more sanding.

[Mueller]

I'm dumb, I meant to say the SS plugs in the kits I referenced in my previous post (from what I can find) are 1 5/8". Those are way too big. I read in another forum that SDTAC is going to start offering SS plugs that will fit their tubes, sometime in the future. Evidently, the FPs that fit SD and Apogee tubes are designed for use in smaller GM engines.

[russ4777]

Where are you getting SS freeze plugs? I found some here, http://shop.whiteperformance.com/Freeze ... gs_c39.htm but the OD is too big to use in Appogee or SDTA tubes. According to what I can find, the SS plugs in these kits are larger than 1.35".

Thanks,
Chris

Diversified Machine has a Ti tube with 1.485" and 1.375" ID, and SS with 1.375" ID. The Apogee and SD Ti are 1.360", and Apogee and SD SS/Steel are 1.350. So the 1.375 (1 3/8") SS freeze plugs are a option for some tubes if they are sanded down because they are typically made to be pressed in. I guess they would be option for all, just more sanding.

Do you have a url or email address for "Diversified Machine"?

[Delorvan]

I'm dumb, I meant to say the SS plugs in the kits I referenced in my previous post (from what I can find) are 1 5/8". Those are way too big. I read in another forum that SDTAC is going to start offering SS plugs that will fit their tubes, sometime in the future. Evidently, the FPs that fit SD and Apogee tubes are designed for use in smaller GM engines.

Pardon me if I have misunderstood your question here, but I am assuming you are talking about stainless steel plugs for the Maglite-sized 1.350" ID tubes. If that's not the case, ignore this

Sealed Power freeze plugs p/n 381-3179, available at NAPA, although they never seem to have many (if any) on hand. I have another source that I am trying out, will know tomorrow for sure if they are a good source, but everything looks good in the transaction so far. PM me and I'll share the source if it works out.

Dorman plugs 555-104 work dimension-wise, but the SDTA centering tool has trouble with them.

[c5_nc]

Where are you getting SS freeze plugs? I found some here, http://shop.whiteperformance.com/Freeze ... gs_c39.htm but the OD is too big to use in Appogee or SDTA tubes. According to what I can find, the SS plugs in these kits are larger than 1.35".

Thanks,
Chris

Diversified Machine has a Ti tube with 1.485" and 1.375" ID, and SS with 1.375" ID. The Apogee and SD Ti are 1.360", and Apogee and SD SS/Steel are 1.350. So the 1.375 (1 3/8") SS freeze plugs are a option for some tubes if they are sanded down because they are typically made to be pressed in. I guess they would be option for all, just more sanding.

Do you have a url or email address for "Diversified Machine"?

[email protected]

[c5_nc]

I'm dumb, I meant to say the SS plugs in the kits I referenced in my previous post (from what I can find) are 1 5/8". Those are way too big. I read in another forum that SDTAC is going to start offering SS plugs that will fit their tubes, sometime in the future. Evidently, the FPs that fit SD and Apogee tubes are designed for use in smaller GM engines.

Pardon me if I have misunderstood your question here, but I am assuming you are talking about stainless steel plugs for the Maglite-sized 1.350" ID tubes. If that's not the case, ignore this

Sealed Power freeze plugs p/n 381-3179, available at NAPA, although they never seem to have many (if any) on hand. I have another source that I am trying out, will know tomorrow for sure if they are a good source, but everything looks good in the transaction so far. PM me and I'll share the source if it works out.

Dorman plugs 555-104 work dimension-wise, but the SDTA centering tool has trouble with them.

There are couple types of 1.5" and 1.375" Stainless Steel freeze plugs on the market but not in 1.350" The part you referenced is carbon steel, or really 1018 steal with a zinc type layer to give the shinny finish. SDTA and the Jim guy that sells the forming tools on ebay are saying they may get the ones done in SS.

[armalite_ar50]

tagged for future.

[Top_prop]

I'm just getting ready for my first build. Wondering if there is any word on stainless freeze plugs or suitable first baffle options from SD tactical. I don't find anything on their site.