Brake VS Flash hider

[sizulku]

Gents, what is the benefit of using brake for can compare to flash hider?

[gunny50]

Gents, what is the benefit of using brake for can compare to flash hider?

Brake is a great start to disrupt the gasflow, AND a fantastic sacrificial baffle system for some calibers / barrel lengths.

Gunny

[sizulku]

Brake is a great start to disrupt the gasflow, AND a fantastic sacrificial baffle system for some calibers / barrel lengths.

Gunny

Gunny, let be specific, the brake is for 5.56 NATO, will it reduce muzzle rise and eliminates recoil?

[doubloon]

... eliminates recoil?

The only thing that does this is letting someone else shoot your gun for you.

ETA: look at this video ... found with Google ... and you can compare them for yourself

Some brakes actually increase muzzle rise and some do very little to reduce recoil but I don't recall a single one that eliminates either rise or recoil.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2G07-RvM-Y

[gunny50]

... eliminates recoil?

The only thing that does this is letting someone else shoot your gun for you.

ETA: look at this video ... found with Google ... and you can compare them for yourself

Some brakes actually increase muzzle rise and some do very little to reduce recoil but I don't recall a single one that eliminates either rise or recoil.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2G07-RvM-Y

Sorry, But I do not agree to that you do not recall a single on that either eliminates recoil or muzzle rise.
There are several brakes that eliminate rise and quit a few that reduce recoil very well.
Just check some of the 3Gun designs out there.

Problem with the setup in the video is that the brake pushes the barrel down so hard that it propels the barrel upwards.
The material / gun support used in this setup is not good.

Several setups have been made to set FH and Brakes that do not support the barrel al the way to the front so that momentum is enlarged and the barrel is whipped upwards.

Years ago we made a small brake with one blast chamber and additional 3 jetports in the top that would push a 7,5" and 10,5" FA M16 down when shot as a pistol.
One could use an open hand to support the gun and guide it to the target.
It all comes down to the right design in port size and port contour.
Recoil was less than with a FH, biggest benefit was the fact that the gun was pushed in the hand of the user.

Gunny

[doubloon]

...
Sorry, But I do not agree to that you do not recall a single on that either eliminates recoil or muzzle rise.
...

You can disagree about what I recall all day long and it won't make you right or what I said any less wrong. Are you saying I'm a liar?

#1 It is not possible for you to know what I may or may not recall. If you can, the BATFE is looking for some thought police to help them hunt down people harboring unrealized intent.

#2 "eliminate" -- əˈliməˌnāt -- completely remove or get rid of (something). Reading comprehension, get some.

#3 I still do not recall a single one that eliminates either rise or recoil. Show me one, with video proof, available to buy today that eliminates either rise or recoil and and then I'll have one to recall and I will thank you for increasing my knowledge.

...
Problem with the setup in the video is that the brake pushes the barrel down so hard that it propels the barrel upwards.
...

If any single one of the brakes in that video eliminated recoil it wouldn't matter what kind of setup was used, the gun could be suspended in air with a piece of twine.

[Hard_ware]

Using a brake inside the can does a better job of disrupting the gasses and can redirect a large volume of the gasses escaping the muzzle into a reflex chamber delaying them and reducing the internal pressures of the can.
This is dependent on the design of the brake and the volume of the reflex chamber, as the gasses have to have a place to flow into.
Kinda like lazy people, they take the path of least resistance.

Having a muzzle brake take the brunt of the blast saves wear and tear on the cans other baffles.

As far as the difference in side the can for muzzle rise or reduced recoil , they are both the same.
Yep the same, no difference. All the gasses escape from the unplugged end of the can period!

A brake, a flash hider, or nothing to disrupt the gasses inside a can makes for a low performing design, but almost all the gas will come out the muzzle with a very small amount exiting the gas port and the chamber in an auto loader, all gasses exit the end of the can in a bolt or single shot.

Any high velocity gas exiting the muzzle acts like jet propulsion , the force will be applied in the opposite direction.
Redirecting any amount of gas will reduce the force generated. The more gasses redirected the more the force will be reduced.

[cal50]

A brake suppressor mount takes some of the wear & tear off the suppressor blast baffle. If you are running a short barrel ( under 16" ) I would use a brake / suppressor mount. 16" barrels and longer are not as punishing on the suppressor blast baffle as the short barrels.

As to how effective brakes can be an efficient brake on a caliber that has ample gas volume to re-direct and port works well.
If they did not work well you would not see them on various rifles , cannons and artillery pieces.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muzzle_brake

[gunny50]

...
Sorry, But I do not agree to that you do not recall a single on that either eliminates recoil or muzzle rise.
...

You can disagree about what I recall all day long and it won't make you right or what I said any less wrong. Are you saying I'm a liar?
#1 It is not possible for you to know what I may or may not recall. If you can, the BATFE is looking for some thought police to help them hunt down people harboring unrealized intent.
#2 "eliminate" -- əˈliməˌnāt -- completely remove or get rid of (something). Reading comprehension, get some.
#3 I still do not recall a single one that eliminates either rise or recoil. Show me one, with video proof, available to buy today that eliminates either rise or recoil and and then I'll have one to recall and I will thank you for increasing my knowledge.

...
Problem with the setup in the video is that the brake pushes the barrel down so hard that it propels the barrel upwards.
...

If any single one of the brakes in that video eliminated recoil it wouldn't matter what kind of setup was used, the gun could be suspended in air with a piece of twine.

Doubloon,
Its a bit after 02.30 in the morning so please bear with me, I might explain this wrong by using the wrong wording.
First, I might not have used the right words, as I'm not an english language user by birth, and do not speak it al day long. I simply expressed my feelings to your words.
Something that more people over here do and No we do not all say that the other guy is a Liar because we see not eye to eye in a solution or designing point or just see things different.
I guess having our own mind in this makes us Human Right?

No I'm not saying you are a lair. PERIOD. In case I gave you that feeling, I'm sorry.
1 - you are right in that I can not know what You do real ( typo - needs to be recall) or might have experienced.
2 - I'll stop with responding to peoples post here, as I might understand their wording wrong, or I would have to use a dictionary for each word I read.
3 - OP's question was reduce rise and eliminate recoil - for most of the shooters out in the field they mean the following with that (in my understanding): have far less that the original weapon system without any FH or brake on it. So in this case My fault if i did not use the Term as in a dictionary.
I do understand that to having a video might make it look silly / crazy / wrong? and as most here say pictures or it did not happen. Well in that case you are right. BUT I did design that small brake with jetports on it and it did what I was saying.
No proof for it now so it did not happen??

Doubloon, one thing is for sure I have not called any person here on ST a liar, not now not ever before.
My feeling to this is that we use words in these posts as used on the range, under shooting buddy,s
My bad for not using the scientific / dictionary meaning of the words.
But I think we all do this a bit as we do use Silencer as the word for what we build here. - Silencer comes from Silence - absence of any sound or noise; stillness. and I do think non of th devices we buy or build are, when used: with absence of any sound or noise.

I'll keep to my point as in:
The test setup is not good, barrel is jumping as material in contact with the barrel is helping it jump (up) in reaction to the (downward) forces generated by some of the muzzle devices installed on the barrel. Not ALL but SOME.
There are more professional setups than this one, that have been used for testing FH - Brakes on weapons. all to prove that they do a better job that the basic weapon system without one attached to it.

I'll try to find some pictures on Google to explain what I mean by better fixtures.
The solution used in the video shown in the link is just not right way to test it.
I do recall a test done by Mister Silvers if I'm not wrong with a far better setup han the one used above.

Again early in the morning and not my intention to give you a feeling that I might think you are a liar.

Gunny
edited because some typo and not typing the right words from my side.

[gunny50]

Quick search on G and I found:

link to Australian test on FH.
http://dspace.dsto.defence.gov.au/dspac ... 3%20PR.pdf

Link to a test with very well explained information, pictures , stats, etc.
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/1 ... -shootout/

Link to some nice information on weapons tests.
http://firearmshistory.blogspot.nl/2011 ... rests.html

Link to misters Silvers test on Muzzle attachments.
( I will update this after I find it back, tim eto get some sleep now.)

[Rich V]

2 - I'll stop with responding to peoples post here, as I might understand their wording wrong, or I would have to use a dictionary for each word I read.


Gunny

Gunny
I have read many of your posts and consider your knowledge and experience in suppressors to be an asset to this board. I consider you to be one of the best contributors on this forum. You have never come across as anything but sincere in your posts in advising us amateurs on our designs and answering questions. Please don't stop.

Your English is just fine and if you misspeak most of us can figure out what you meant to say. I may have a new join date but I have been reading this forum for several years. The knowledge I gained from you and other posters was invaluable in my own form 1 builds.

Keep up your efforts helping us learn the ways of the silencer.

Rich

[gunny50]

2 - I'll stop with responding to peoples post here, as I might understand their wording wrong, or I would have to use a dictionary for each word I read.
Gunny

Gunny
I have read many of your posts and consider your knowledge and experience in suppressors to be an asset to this board. I consider you to be one of the best contributors on this forum. You have never come across as anything but sincere in your posts in advising us amateurs on our designs and answering questions. Please don't stop.
Your English is just fine and if you misspeak most of us can figure out what you meant to say. I may have a new join date but I have been reading this forum for several years. The knowledge I gained from you and other posters was invaluable in my own form 1 builds.
Keep up your efforts helping us learn the ways of the silencer.

Rich

Rich, thank you for your kind words, but there are many like me out here on ST that will give you good advice.
I did not want to hurt someone feeling or give them the idea that I think they are a liar.

I was responding is a way that I would among friends, one does not always have to see eye to eye on some matters / points.
Discussions are there to help each other to understand / see things in a different way, than your personal idea / mindset.
This is what helps in developing new ideas, designs and a better silencer.

I like to support others in their build, but there are others like me that do that to.
I'm sorry if my language barrier got others to think otherwise.

Again tnx for your kind words.

Gunny

[colimr]

Gunny As a student of knowledge your I feel your wisdom is valuable to many members here.As a NY resident I will never own a suppressor but the knowledge in design and machining something, used on a firearm to perform safely, that you provide is invaluable.You don't have to own or use a suppressor to appreciate your post.You have provided so much information here without judgment that in my opinion anyone who disrespects (you or anyone like you who gives information honestly and freely), should leave this site because they apparently they are so smart they dont need to be here to learn and are just the type of people that feel the louder they are the more informed and knowledgable they are.please excuse my grammer and spelling.Gunny keep up informing those of us who wish to learn.

[sizulku]

Gunny, please don't stop posting, I'm the one who should blamed by asking this stupid question. My apologize to you and doubloon for making this uncomfortable situation. My apologize also to all other members.

I found the brake that eliminates recoil and reduce muzzle rise but I'm not sure if it can be used on suppressor due to it seem will be sacrifice the surface suppressor internals. Here is the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-wDfObW6UE

[friendlysniper]

The lantac dragon seems to eliminate recoil and muzzle rise. Watch videos of it for yourself.

[uisnoisy]

2 - I'll stop with responding to peoples post here, as I might understand their wording wrong, or I would have to use a dictionary for each word I read.

I hope your comment is sarcastic, it made me snicker to the bitter response you received.

[gunny50]

2 - I'll stop with responding to peoples post here, as I might understand their wording wrong, or I would have to use a dictionary for each word I read.

I hope your comment is sarcastic, it made me snicker to the bitter response you received.

UISNOISY, sure it was a little bit sarcastic. But I'm honest in that my language barrier can sometimes be a problem.
That is why I'm not completely sure about your line as well, but that does not matter.

Gunny, please don't stop posting, I'm the one who should blamed by asking this stupid question. My apologize to you and doubloon for making this uncomfortable situation. My apologize also to all other members.
I found the brake that eliminates recoil and reduce muzzle rise but I'm not sure if it can be used on suppressor due to it seem will be sacrifice the surface suppressor internals.

Sizulku, you are not to blame for this. Your question was legit, in that you where looking for answers on the MB designs out there. As mentioned, there are some that do the job.
You can use the Lantac inside a silencer. Just make sure that the blast-wall is thick enough. or lined with the right materials.
I use brakes inside Ti GR23 and Ti Gr5 cans. With just Ti wall and they will hold up just fine.
As long as user is not going FA, Ti will be fine / great.
If you use 17/4 - 316 for blast-chamber or other quality material you will be having a great system.

As to stopping with posting,
NOPE I will not.
Just need to consult a dictionary more often or read a line more than once and be careful to what I write in my comments.
I thought that my reaction / reply was okay, still do, but can understand that some might think I was wrong.

Gunny

[Pat M]

And considering this is a Silencer site not Suppressor Talk

[whiterussian1974]

...
Sorry, But I do not agree to that you do not recall a single on that either eliminates recoil or muzzle rise....

You can disagree about what I recall all day long and it won't make you right or what I said any less wrong. Are you saying I'm a liar?

#1 It is not possible for you to know what I may or may not recall. If you can, the BATFE is looking for some thought police to help them hunt down people harboring unrealized intent.
#2 "eliminate" -- əˈliməˌnāt -- completely remove or get rid of (something). Reading comprehension, get some.
#3 I still do not recall a single one that eliminates either rise or recoil. Show me one, with video proof, available to buy today that eliminates either rise or recoil and and then I'll have one to recall and I will thank you for increasing my knowledge.

...
Problem with the setup in the video is that the brake pushes the barrel down so hard that it propels the barrel upwards.
...

If any single one of the brakes in that video eliminated recoil it wouldn't matter what kind of setup was used, the gun could be suspended in air with a piece of twine.

Since this Thread has devolved into language confusion, I can't resist jumping in.
In English, some sentence Elements including grammer and parts of Speech can be implied or understood.
Por ejemplo: Does this brake (partially) eliminate muzzle rise or (felt) recoil?
Also, I love your

You can disagree about what I recall all day long and it won't make you right or what I said any less wrong.

I thought that Doubloon was being playfully sarcastic, but it was easy to take offense based upon the tone of his surrounding comments.

Please let's all remember that this Site enjoys International Members whose English may or may not be better than our own. Even University English Majors sometimes make mistakes.

Also, the Government is FULL of Agents, Clerks, etc. who specialize in

thought police to help them hunt down people harboring unrealized intent.

What they are short on is compassion and understanding. Unfortunately there's no budget for that Training.

[uisnoisy]

2 - I'll stop with responding to peoples post here, as I might understand their wording wrong, or I would have to use a dictionary for each word I read.

I hope your comment is sarcastic, it made me snicker to the bitter response you received.

UISNOISY, sure it was a little bit sarcastic. But I'm honest in that my language barrier can sometimes be a problem.
That is why I'm not completely sure about your line as well, but that does not matter.

All I meant was I thought your response was funny.