Should I build with a Hobby Lathe, Form Freeze Plugs, or Buy?

Yes, it can be legal to make a silencer. For everything Form-1, from silencer designs that are easily made, to filing forms with the BATF, to 3D modeling. Remember, you must have an approved BATF Form-1 to make a silencer. All NFA laws apply.

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0101silent
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Should I build with a Hobby Lathe, Form Freeze Plugs, or Buy?

Post by 0101silent »

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Last edited by 0101silent on Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
BCJ
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Re: Should I build with a Hobby Lathe, Form Freeze Plugs, or Buy?

Post by BCJ »

I built my first 2 suppressors on a 7x10 HF lathe. As long as you are welding the can together the baffles won't be a problem on the little lathe, it will just take a while.
propeine
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Re: Should I build with a Hobby Lathe, Form Freeze Plugs, or Buy?

Post by propeine »

Form 1 E-File wait time 30-50 days currently
Form 4 Paper file 4-6 months.

Even if I were buying one outright (which I might tomrrow), I would build one in the meantime which I should have approval back any day. But I am impatient and I like to build things.
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Capt. Link.
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Re: Should I build with a Hobby Lathe, Form Freeze Plugs, or Buy?

Post by Capt. Link. »

Buying a lathe just to build a few suppressors would not be cost effective.If you wish to take up machining as a serious hobby and have a lathe capable to build most anything plus suppressors then yes.I would say the minimum outlay of cash in new equipment would be around 3500-5,000$ including tooling for a good quality chi-com lathe that would fit in size and capabilities.The grizzly 12x24 I think has the features necessary for a buy it once investment.
If your guns are not threaded you must add that to the cost of a freeze plug build or a factory unit.Most ad-hock builds will still require the use of a lathe and or a skilled welder at some point.

Learning machine tool skills has been one of the most rewarding aspects of my life but its not inexpensive.CL
The only reason after 243 years the government now wants to disarm you is they intend to do something you would shoot them for!
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Dr.K
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Re: Should I build with a Hobby Lathe, Form Freeze Plugs, or Buy?

Post by Dr.K »

Capt. beat me to it. Don't do it unless you wan to make things, lots of things! A couple of suppressors, just buy them. If you really want a machine shop, get a mill and a lathe....as much as you can afford. Otherwise, not worth it.
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T-Rex
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Re: Should I build with a Hobby Lathe, Form Freeze Plugs, or Buy?

Post by T-Rex »

I us an Atlas 6x18 for most everything. I have access to larger machines, not at my home, but I love my little atlas. You "feel" the work on a smaller lathe.I can knock out 7075 k-baffles in about 45 min, now. Anything stainless will be about 30-60% longer.

I agree that buying a lathe to make 2 suppressors isn't a good idea beyond just cost. You will need at least a year or more of regular practice before I'd begin to think about something needing the contrentricity of a suppressor. Especially since you're going to stack 6-10 pieces together and expect a tight tolerance.

I would disagree with the startup costs, though. I'm at about $1800-2k right now and that's with: lathe, rest, 4 workpiece chucks, 2 tool chucks, Indicators , various bits, etc. Most of my practice material was drops so the cost was nil. Ive averaged about 30hrs a week in my basement shop, at nights, for about the last 5yrs. I have 3 degrees in design and have been building things for as long as I can remember. I'm just trying to express how deep my passion is for machining. If you feel this is something you are really into and will continue to grow with, I say go for it. Just hold off on any form 1's until you know you're ready. You'll know when that is and you'll be proud of the end result.

Best of luck.
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speed6
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Re: Should I build with a Hobby Lathe, Form Freeze Plugs, or Buy?

Post by speed6 »

I have a grizzly 7x12. It can turn 416 but you will need to take light cuts, like around 20 thou a pass max. It does 6061 AL and delrin really well. The max tube you can internally thread is about 6" long, with a max OD of a little under 3 inches. Unless you want to learn more about machining and design as well as making silencers I would just buy a commercial can. Taking into account the time and money needed to get a decent machine and become proficient at using it buying a commercial suppressor is probably more cost effective.
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Re: Should I build with a Hobby Lathe, Form Freeze Plugs, or Buy?

Post by L1A1Rocker »

If you decide on getting a lathe may I suggest you look at full sized vintage American Iron, rather than new. Often with used lathes you get a lot of tooling that comes with it. Plus, you get a solid lathe capable of doing a lot more than a mini lathe.
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Re: Should I build with a Hobby Lathe, Form Freeze Plugs, or Buy?

Post by sub-sonic »

the G4000 from HF is a good basic lathe for 1k and there is a milling attachment available for it.
so its 1k + tooling just to turn some metal. then there is learning to cut threads etc.
you would need a welder if you are not going to thread the end caps

or you could buy both silencers for the same 1k.

make it from freeze plugs. some basic tools an extended drill bit and a welder from the 1k you would have enough left over to buy a gun to put the silencer on
I have two hobbies. Shooting and reloading. The more I do of one the more I can do of the other.
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Re: Should I build with a Hobby Lathe, Form Freeze Plugs, or Buy?

Post by 0101silent »

Thanks Everyone for the responses, especially on the advice on lathes and information on what the mini lathes are capable of.

I'm going to fill out a Form 1's as soon as I settle on the lengths that I want.

I am still undecided on whether I should use a lathe or use freeze plugs. I am impressed with the freeze plug suppressor from sub-sonic. I am leaning heavily towards the freeze plug build.
0101silent
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Re: Should I build with a Hobby Lathe, Form Freeze Plugs, or Buy?

Post by 0101silent »

I bought a used Central Machinery 9x20 Lathe, similar to the Grizzly G4000. It came with a 7" 4 jaw chuck, a 7" face plate, a 4" 3 jaw chuck, MT3 dead center, MT2 live and dead center, drill chuck, steady rest, follow rest, a stand, and some tooling.

I was set on buying a new 7x12 but I'm glad that I waited and found a used machine for a good price. I had to pass up several good lathes because they were too big and heavy to get into my basement.

After pricing out additional tooling and upgrades I see that I may never break even on my equipment and time but I'll have the satisfaction of making it myself and not having to compromise. Everything will be custom made to my specifications.
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Re: Should I build with a Hobby Lathe, Form Freeze Plugs, or Buy?

Post by armalite_ar50 »

I wouldn't buy a lathe "just" to make a can.
I bought mine to just make "things" and I do. after almost 6 yeas I've decided to make a can.
only two pieces of tooling left to buy. I have the F1 and the stock.
I've made all kinds of reloading stuff. RC parts, parts for a 72 x 2 inch belt sander, a axle for the right front passenger side Dodge Durango and other stiff with my old Atlas.

Figured it's time to try a .30 Cal can.
Like others though, I bought my 1st three cans Two SWR's and a Original MAC sionics two stage for my powder springs M10.

SO like others, if you are looking to make things ( including mistakes) and NOT just a can then get one.
If it's going to be like a tread mill and hang laundry on it after the can. skip and buy a quality can.
Also buying a factory quality can will give you a real side x side Comp. to your finished project.

I don't get as much time on mine as T REX but I do get time on it.

Rich
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Re: Should I build with a Hobby Lathe, Form Freeze Plugs, or Buy?

Post by Slow Hand »

I'll throw in my newbie two cents here...

I love making things myself. I've wanted a Lathe and a Mill for several years. No real place to put them. I ended up buying a 9x19" Atlas made int eh 30's last fall. Its not very big, but does a good job for me. At Christmas I got a quick change tool post and that has made it much more useful. I am nearly finished with my 6" 300 blk can now. I'm ready to submit another F1 to build a .223 can too. I paid $500 for the lathe, another couple hundred in tooling and parts. I figure that by the second can, it'll have paid for itself in a manner. Its kind of like reloading, you dont really save money, you get to shoot more and have pride in 'doing it yourself'. Kind of the same with a lathe and suppressors. I already have a good .30 cal can, and would not have bought another one anytime soon to specifically use for 300 blk, but since I can make one for $50 in materials, why not? Same thig for a .223 suppressor. Im sure ill get around to making a .22 can eventually too, and possibly one for my new Sterling SMG. I have done a few other projects on the lathe. Mostly stuff I could have bought but I take pride in doing stuff myself and small projects give good practice for more importiant jobs.
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Re: Should I build with a Hobby Lathe, Form Freeze Plugs, or Buy?

Post by mcpilot »

Hey guys.. I have a 7x16 MicroMark.. I love it.. Have you guys worked with stainless on your lathes?

I have some 316 stainless stock and when I get my Form 1 back was thinking of doing a .223 suppressor with the lathe. I did a .22 already on a Form 1 with aluminum baffles and it was easy... the stainless is much harder though so wondering how slow the process might be.
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Re: Should I build with a Hobby Lathe, Form Freeze Plugs, or Buy?

Post by T-Rex »

Carbide bits, even brazed, will help. HSS will work, but will be slower.

If you can use a live center on the work, regardless of work size, it will help.

Cooling helps too, but isn't mandatory.

Just dont expect to cut like Al or be in a rush and youll be fine. Adjust your bit angle a couple times to get them perfected.
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Re: Should I build with a Hobby Lathe, Form Freeze Plugs, or Buy?

Post by Historian »

As T-Rex says, you can do so much with a wonderful American Iron
'door stop' Atlas 618 lathe. Old NRA gunsmithing book of
the 1960's had an article by a Southern gunsmith who
used it most of the time for making parts/smithing and turned to
his large one for long barrels.

For example you can add heft and stability to the 618 milling
attachment by inserting into its jaws a 2" tool maker's vise ( vices
for 50 shades of Grey )

For mine I use ER40 collets with MT2 holder which allow the solid and accurate holding of parts up to 1".

Truth in lending: still dream of Grizzly Gunsmith lathe. :)


* << http://sheng-ya.en.made-in-china.com/of ... Vises.html >>
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