Titanium tube question
Titanium tube question
Question for the masters out there. There are a variety of titanium alloys out there, is there any one preferred for an outer tube than another? This is assuming steel (probably stainless) endcaps and baffles along with spacers, so really the titanium won't get direct blast contact. Kicking around my first home build and don't want a 2 ton brick hanging off the end of my muzzle. Thanks in advance.
Re: Titanium tube question
Most common tube used is 3Al-2.5V (Grade 9) tubing.
Baffles made from 6AL-4V (grade 5) round bar are pretty tough.
http://www.tigermetalsgroup.com/storek/Tube/3Al-2.5V
Baffles made from 6AL-4V (grade 5) round bar are pretty tough.
http://www.tigermetalsgroup.com/storek/Tube/3Al-2.5V
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- L1A1Rocker
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Re: Titanium tube question
Grade 5 is the king of titanium. BUT, it is only available in solid form. It cannot be drawn over a mandrel to make tubes because it will crack. If you want a Gr 5 tube you have to bore it out from solid. Otherwise, Grade 9 tubing does well.
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Re: Titanium tube question
Here are the material properties for common Titanium materials (approximate).
Ti Grade 2 CP: Tensile strength 28ksi, Modulus 14.8msi
Ti Grade 5 6Al 4V: 130ksi, 16.5Msi
Ti Grade 9 3Al 2.5V: 100ksi, 13Msi
Basically it means that Grade 5 is over 4.5 times stronger than grade 2 and 1.3 times stronger than Grade 9.
Another meaning: the Grade 9 tube will need to be 30% thicker to contain the pressure than Grade 5, however that's not usually an issue and it is less work since grade 5 work hardens.
Titanium is high temp as well so it will depend on what you are putting it on (rimfire cans are apparently fine in aluminum, although I haven't done one).
Typical "Stainless" isn't that great when you compare numbers and compare numbers at high temps.
if you are worried about heat/oxidation then use nickel alloys (inconel 718, HX, hastelloy, etc). Inconel HX is good up over 2000F.
Ti Grade 2 CP: Tensile strength 28ksi, Modulus 14.8msi
Ti Grade 5 6Al 4V: 130ksi, 16.5Msi
Ti Grade 9 3Al 2.5V: 100ksi, 13Msi
Basically it means that Grade 5 is over 4.5 times stronger than grade 2 and 1.3 times stronger than Grade 9.
Another meaning: the Grade 9 tube will need to be 30% thicker to contain the pressure than Grade 5, however that's not usually an issue and it is less work since grade 5 work hardens.
Titanium is high temp as well so it will depend on what you are putting it on (rimfire cans are apparently fine in aluminum, although I haven't done one).
Typical "Stainless" isn't that great when you compare numbers and compare numbers at high temps.
if you are worried about heat/oxidation then use nickel alloys (inconel 718, HX, hastelloy, etc). Inconel HX is good up over 2000F.
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Re: Titanium tube question
There is Grade5 tubing out there, but its EXPENSIVE.L1A1Rocker wrote:Grade 5 is the king of titanium. BUT, it is only available in solid form. It cannot be drawn over a mandrel to make tubes because it will crack. If you want a Gr 5 tube you have to bore it out from solid. Otherwise, Grade 9 tubing does well.
Re: Titanium tube question
Sure there is, we make it at work. I work in a tubing factory, comes to us in 2"OD x 1.625"ID billets, then taken down to 1.375"OD X .065 wall on a tube reducer (two dies rolling over a mandrel). Now it's ready to be annealed then cold drawn over a rod to smaller sizes.L1A1Rocker wrote:Grade 5 is the king of titanium. BUT, it is only available in solid form. It cannot be drawn over a mandrel to make tubes because it will crack. If you want a Gr 5 tube you have to bore it out from solid. Otherwise, Grade 9 tubing does well.
I've got a piece of Ti64 billet scrap that I'm gonna machine down for my Form1 build.
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Re: Titanium tube question
Looks like he's talking about you LilPooh because there aren't that many places that can do what your company does.Bendersquint wrote:There is Grade5 tubing out there, but its EXPENSIVE.L1A1Rocker wrote:Grade 5 is the king of titanium. BUT, it is only available in solid form. It cannot be drawn over a mandrel to make tubes because it will crack. If you want a Gr 5 tube you have to bore it out from solid. Otherwise, Grade 9 tubing does well.
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Re: Titanium tube question
Quite an assumption, wasn't referencing the tubing shop in PA.missilemantdi wrote:Looks like he's talking about you LilPooh because there aren't that many places that can do what your company does.Bendersquint wrote:There is Grade5 tubing out there, but its EXPENSIVE.L1A1Rocker wrote:Grade 5 is the king of titanium. BUT, it is only available in solid form. It cannot be drawn over a mandrel to make tubes because it will crack. If you want a Gr 5 tube you have to bore it out from solid. Otherwise, Grade 9 tubing does well.
There are at least 7 places in the US that it can be had from and a mess from overseas.
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Re: Titanium tube question
Wasn't implying a negative connotation, sorry if it came across that way. I was mainly commenting on the fact that not many places do that (7 is not many to me). It is expensive for various reasons.
Re: Titanium tube question
Is there any way i could obtain some of the scrap ?
I have a couple ideas floating around..
Greg
I have a couple ideas floating around..
Greg
Lilpooh wrote:Sure there is, we make it at work. I work in a tubing factory, comes to us in 2"OD x 1.625"ID billets, then taken down to 1.375"OD X .065 wall on a tube reducer (two dies rolling over a mandrel). Now it's ready to be annealed then cold drawn over a rod to smaller sizes.L1A1Rocker wrote:Grade 5 is the king of titanium. BUT, it is only available in solid form. It cannot be drawn over a mandrel to make tubes because it will crack. If you want a Gr 5 tube you have to bore it out from solid. Otherwise, Grade 9 tubing does well.
I've got a piece of Ti64 billet scrap that I'm gonna machine down for my Form1 build.
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Re: Titanium tube question
There is a seller on eBay that sells 3AL 2.5V for cheap. It all has .035" wall and he sells it for ~$30 a foot shipped. I have bought several tubes from him in the past year and it is great. I used it for me recent Form 1 build. He buys it as scrap from the aerospace industry.
He is a great guy and when I did have a problem he contacted me within 30 minutes to resolve it even though it was Thanksgiving. Not a lot of businesses willing to do that for a customer.
He is not selling right now because of the holidays but if you are looking for titanium tube for CHEAP give him a look. Here is his eBay account.
http://www.ebay.com/usr/scs-tool?_trksid=p2047675.l2559
He is a great guy and when I did have a problem he contacted me within 30 minutes to resolve it even though it was Thanksgiving. Not a lot of businesses willing to do that for a customer.
He is not selling right now because of the holidays but if you are looking for titanium tube for CHEAP give him a look. Here is his eBay account.
http://www.ebay.com/usr/scs-tool?_trksid=p2047675.l2559
Last edited by Dolomite_Supafly on Sat Dec 20, 2014 7:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Titanium tube question
I miss doing R&D and prototype work where I had access to lots of different materials and tooling........
Too bad we all do not have relatives at the Hastaloy / Inconel factory & Carbaloy / Kennametal.
Too bad we all do not have relatives at the Hastaloy / Inconel factory & Carbaloy / Kennametal.
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Re: Titanium tube question
Thanks for all the input, now time to start collecting pieces and parts to plan it out. The ebay seller you posted is only 30 min. away from me, so hopefully I can scare up some good scraps. This is going to be fun. Thanks guys!
Re: Titanium tube question
I'm thinking of replicating my Stainless build in titanium I just looked on that guys eBay page and he has nothing ATM. I can't anything my side of the pond. I'll keep looking though.
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Re: Titanium tube question
He probably pulled his listings down for the holidays. He has been around, and selling, for over a decade.pmercer wrote:I'm thinking of replicating my Stainless build in titanium I just looked on that guys eBay page and he has nothing ATM. I can't anything my side of the pond. I'll keep looking though.
It is natural to man to indulge in the illusions of hope. We are apt to shut our eyes against a painful truth-and listen to the song of that siren, till she transforms us into beasts
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