Grizzly Lathe?

[alterian]

First and foremost thanks for reading this and perhaps helping me out in deciding what lathe to get. Okay about myself, I don’t have any machining experience but I am a quick learner and handy with tools. Reason I’m looking to buy a lathe is to make a suppressor (tube, end caps and Baffles) maybe two and to see if I can thread the barrels on my hand gun as well as other minor jobs. I cant decide on what size to get, I know, I know get the biggest you can afford. I just don’t want it to be overkill, just what I need to make suppressors.

I can afford a grizzly G4003G but is it practical for my application? I’m not trying to do anything professionally, at least not right now. I would like to do some gun smithing, but honestly I think it’s a little too much. This will end up going in my garage, I move a lot due to military service so a 1K pound lathe is a lot to move around. The thing that makes me want this one is that it has a 1.5’’ bore. I would like to get something that’ll pay for it self over time, or at least something that I'll use a lot.

I’ve been looking at other lathes so I guess my main question is what lathe would be good for what I want to use it for.

The others I’ve been looking at are G0602, G0516, G0765. I Really like the G0516 due to it being a mill/lathe combo, down side is it has a ¾” bore and doesnt come with a Steady rest. I hear its pretty much required when working with a small bore lathe. I really think a mill/lathe combo would come in real handy in the future though.

The G0602 looks good, but some how not as good as the G0516. I’ll be working with Aluminum, SS and Ti.

What basic tooling will I need to accomplish my task’s?

Form 1 should be in hand in the next week or two. I know, I know Chinese made, but I just need it to do what I to. Again, thanks

[Capt. Link.]

I will tell you that for building a suppressor buying machine tools is the most expensive way to do it.You can hire someone to build a total custom can for thousands less.I'm for hire as example and can build whatever your wallet can afford.
Now that my conscience is clear machining is a very rewarding hobby/career and I will practice the art until I die.My opinion the G4002,G4003G,GO750G series are the best for a hobby/novice machinist through professional gunsmith.Any of them will do the job at hand each in turn a little better and more expensive.I have the G4003G and the G4002 is a jewel with it being short and stiff.I would have bought the GO750G at the time but it was not available and GO709 14x40 was a little more than I could spend at the time. These three have features that the less expensive models don't plus all are belt drive which is what a novice needs.All of them can be outfitted to do lite milling operations.You could with experience barrel a 50bmg rifle with any of them and build it a suppressor to match.

I have American old iron lathes as well and they are fantastic if a good one can be found.Most have small spindle holes which is not a problem for a experienced machinist but is for a novice.Small ones cost more than big ones and you need to be a rigger to move the big ones.
Just my .02

[alterian]

Thanks for the input. Those lathes a pretty BIG. Ive been reading the recent post by some members on here which lead me to beleave i would be fine with a 7X14. How much in tooling am i looking at to get cans done? I guess i have to consider that when choosing one. What are some things i can make on a lathe?

[CMV]

The 4003G is a very capable machine. Mine is a different brand but essentially the same machine but a little bigger. It's not overkill, but depending on what you want to do you might get by with something smaller.

This is my hobby and something I enjoy doing. I don't mind spending the $ for the equipment to do it just like an avid fisherman will buy his own bass boat even though he isn't making money at tournaments. You can buy a lot of silencers and send a lot of barrels out to be threaded for the $3500 you'd tie up in a new G4003G (not to mention everything else you'd need to actually do any work on it). The same way that fisherman could go to the grocery store and buy an awful lot of fish for what that bass boat cost him. I could have bought a Pilot or an Outback for what it cost just to have an electrician come in and run the electrical for my lathe, mill, & saws - there's a lot more to consider than just the cost of the machines.

So far I have 8 form-1 projects. I bought used machines at a great price that came with a little tooling and I'm nowhere close to breaking even vs just buying commercial products or paying others for work. I never intended to be. Don't look at it as a way to save money or you will come away disappointed. If you want a lathe and mill for other projects it might make sense - just depends on what you want to get into. But to make 1 or 2 silencers & thread a few pistol barrels not a good idea. Maybe you can get a great deal on a used 9x20 or something but I wouldn't buy the machines you're looking at new for that little amount of work.

[alterian]

Yup, i completely understand. I think its on inpulse that i want the 4003G. I hope I never need a lathe that size in the future, id be dissapointed i didnt go bigger. So it looks like the Mill/Lathe Combo or one of the 16-22'' lathes. I dont see myself needing to do anything that big, Just cans, barrels and minor auto/house parts. How important in variable speed? Since the bores are small im going to have to use a steady rest currect?


Just curious, what kind of lathe do you have?

[apd855]

I bought the G4003 about 6 years ago and it has been a great lathe. The only thing I don't like about it, is the confusing gear changes for cutting metric threads. I haven't had a single problem with it since new. I did change out the single phase motor for a three phase controlled with a vfd, which it makes it much more versatile. I don't think you would regret getting this lathe.

[ken226]

I have a Smithy MI1237, which is just thier version of the G4003. Its been a great machine and id be happy recommending the MI1237 or G4003 to anyone.

I move around alot as well, and from my perspective, it isn't that much trouble at all moving mine once every 3-4 years. I move mine with a harbor freight engine hoist.

[alterian]

What else can be done on a lathe? For me this is going to be a hobby, so i dont need to invest financially as if is its going to give me a return. The more i dont look at the 4003G the more i relise i dont need one that big. lol

[apd855]

I chamber barrels on mine and one off's for whoever has a need. I built this entire rifle with it and an old Bridgeport. I do all my own automotive machine work, turning brake rotors etc. etc.

http://s478.photobucket.com/user/apd855 ... y/50%20BMG

[gunny50]

I chamber barrels on mine and one off's for whoever has a need. I built this entire rifle with it and an old Bridgeport. I do all my own automotive machine work, turning brake rotors etc. etc.

http://s478.photobucket.com/user/apd855 ... y/50%20BMG

apd855
Great job on the build, I see you also build your own hardening kiln / Oven.
What plans did you use for the rifle?
Or is it your own design?

Gunny

[CMV]

Had I not found a used machine that I liked, this is what I was going to buy new http://machinetoolonline.com/PM-1127-VF.html

A little smaller & a little less money. To me the advantages were the 1.5" spindle bore & 110V.

Unless you're set on a brand new machine, come up with your list of "must haves" and "would be nice" and start shopping around for used machines that meet your minimum requirements. When I went thru that exercise I didn't know much about lathes so it was easier to come up with certain things I knew I didn't want to at least exclude those. I didn't want 3ph power, didn't want anything smaller than 9x20, didn't want anything that needed any sort of repair or not in great shape, etc.

[plodder]

I just finished up my first Form1 can on a Smithy 1200XL 3 in 1 machining center. Cheap Chinese junk, but more than sufficient for the degree of precision needed for the project. I had some limited and crude machining experience to draw upon. My .22 can performs much better than my what my expectations were. Now on to center fire!

I would recommend at a minimum a steady rest, 3/8" boring/threading bar, 1/2" boring/threading bar (or a grinder sufficient to modify a larger bar into one that will fit your bar) plus all typical high speed or carbide cutting tools.

My #1 complaint with the Smithy is that I have to exchange gear sets to go from general turning operations to thread cutting. But, since this is a hobby, not a business operation, the 3 in one compact machining center suits my needs quite well.

[alterian]

Thats whats nice about the 4003G, a 1.5"" bore. I mean thats all I would ever need if i needed to upgrade. Ive seen the Smithy 1200XL, looks like one of the Grizzlys but then again both come from china. The PM-1127 Looks really good, and I looks close to a 4003 but with variable speed, how is it so cheap. I mean i notice the weight, why is it so light? A 2 year warranty looks good too, I wonder what they'll actually cover.

If i can ask, generally what is everyone proffesion? What i mean is for owners of this machine or one of its size does your job require it? Again i dont want to go overkill. Brake rators, Making weapons seems like if would fall into overkill. It would be great, what the legality of building your own Riffle and or hand guns, so long as they are NFA complient?

Why is Bore size so stressed? I mean you could do the same amount of work with a steady rest as long at the work can fit in right? What are some of the cons of a small bore?

[CMV]

Thats whats nice about the 4003G, a 1.5"" bore. I mean thats all I would ever need if i needed to upgrade. Ive seen the Smithy 1200XL, looks like one of the Grizzlys but then again both come from china. The PM-1127 Looks really good, and I looks close to a 4003 but with variable speed, how is it so cheap. I mean i notice the weight, why is it so light? A 2 year warranty looks good too, I wonder what they'll actually cover.

If i can ask, generally what is everyone proffesion? What i mean is for owners of this machine or one of its size does your job require it? Again i dont want to go overkill. Brake rators, Making weapons seems like if would fall into overkill. It would be great, what the legality of building your own Riffle and or hand guns, so long as they are NFA complient?

Why is Bore size so stressed? I mean you could do the same amount of work with a steady rest as long at the work can fit in right? What are some of the cons of a small bore?

If I have an 18" piece of stock that's 1 9/16" or smaller in diameter but I just want to make a small part from it, I just put the piece in the chuck & go. I don't have to cut it to a smaller size and I waste less material not needing to leave a little to hold on to for every little piece.

Plus, you want to be working right up at the chuck whenever practical. Threading a rifle barrel, boring something deep, drilling something deep, etc - it's just nice to run the stock thru the spindle and be right at the chuck instead of dicking around with rests.

Some things I'm not sure how you would do it without the spindle bore being large enough. Working on a barreled action for instance. I'm sure there are ways, but they will probably include fabricating something for work holding and a much more complex setup.

For a brake rotor, K baffle, or pistol barrel, you could care less what your spindle bore is for the most part. You do need to consider swing size since you mentioned brake rotors several times. You'll need enough swing or a removable gap bed.

You'll generally have other nice features on a machine with a larger size in general in addition to a larger spindle bore. The weight is obvious, but you will typically find things like a gearbox, feed rod, power cross slide feed, more HP, or other tings that are nice to have & many of the smaller machines lack. Doesn't mean you can't do the same work (within reason) on a smaller machine, just that it will be simpler on a larger one.

[alterian]

Now that i think about it, i would love to make acouple threaded barrels for my XD's. I really really doubt ill be working on anything longer thene 12''. I guess as long as i can do threading, baffles, pistol barrels along with minor jobs ill probably go with a G0516 or 0602. I still have time so ill think about whatt i would like to build.

[john.t.little1]

Those precision Mathews machines are nice I almost bought one until I came across a old monarch on Craigslist for 2k

[Capt. Link.]

The Monarch EE is one of the finest machines ever made.I just passed up a mint one a few weeks back.Hows your first harmonic John are you getting any sleep yet.

I have the G4003G and work as a gunsmith.They put precision bearings in this model and its up to any gun related job you can think of.The biggest suppressor I ever built on it is a 20mm for a Lahti and have barreled and chambered a 50bmg on it.These various model lathes with a 1.625 or 40mm spindle can also hold a 5c collet and that is great for real precise work.With a face plate mounted on the tail stock and a 5c you can use the lathe just like a drill press.With a vice added to the cross slide and the 5c you now have a milling machine.With a T slot table added to the cross slide you can do line boring.A lathe can do shaping and indexing using the split nut.Adding a motorized collet spindle to the slide adds another axis with unlimited possibilities.I make a living with mine and will buy a larger machine in the not to distant future as its a small machine compared to others.

The table top models can do much of the same work but it will take you longer and you may need to get creative. You will have some limitations on what you can cut what tools that you use but the versatility is still there.One of the most popular size is around 9x19 and there are some very good web sites dedicated to modifying and using these models.Here are some links to get you started http://bedair.org/9x20.html https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/9x20Lathe/info
If you buy a smaller machine new grizzly has the 10x22 model that is just about the same as the 9x19 but has a 1.00" spindle.This at least will make a few jobs more simple. Good luck and let us know what you have bought.CL

[gunny50]

I have the G4003G and work as a gunsmith.The biggest suppressor I ever built on it is a 20mm for a Lahti .CL

Capt,

How big was it?
Did you take pictures?

Gunny

[Capt. Link.]

The 20mm was built under a disclosure agreement I can share the basics.
5.00"x 32.00" tube & end caps made from a lightweight alloy, baffles from chrome-molly / alloy.A stainless steel diffuser wrapped with welded SS mesh & air craft cable. Followed by nested K baffles that looked like soup bowls.Welding heat treatment and application of a non reflective epoxy type spray finish and canvas bag completed the package.
K baffles were type 3 w/ alloy skirts.Reduced blast recoil and flash elimination exceeded expectations.
I had to build a new steady rest to hold the tube.I did not have a bull nose center large enough so a cap with a 60* taper allowed my live center to be used. A divers belt with weights reduced the vibrations and bell like sound when turning the tube.A larger lathe with infinite speed adjustment would have been nice but this lathe is capable with some accessories.

[john.t.little1]

Capt. she's been sleeping good up a few times a night to change the diaper and feed but could be worse..

now id discourage the tabletop models only because A I'm the type to buy something to get me buy than regret I didn't spend the money to get something better later on and B I've heard they aren't that rigid.

My $0.02 search craigslist find a old american made lathe and make a milling attachment for it.. Join practicalmachienist and search all the info you can ever need is there.

[ranb]

Make sure you install a coolant system on it. I waited ten years to install one on my Grizzly G9729 and sure wish I'd installed it years ago. Yours seems to be much better than the one I bought.

I'm working on project 20 or so. My fourth project was for a 510 whisper, SSK wanted $2500 for the can, I made mine for less than $50. Back in 2002 I spent $2000 on lathe and a welder. I'm in the black but wish I'd bought more lathe. It is a lifetime hobby.

Randy

[alterian]

I was really looking at the 0516, but it doesnt come with a rest and I cant seem to find one for it. I know ill NEED a rest so i have to find one for it or move on to another lathe. Anyone have any input on that issue? How important is variable speed?

[ranb]

I will tell you that for building a suppressor buying machine tools is the most expensive way to do it.You can hire someone to build a total custom can for thousands less.

There are two main ways I promote silencer use at home in WA. I allow anyone with a host to use my silencers while I watch at the rifle range. I also have a standing offer for anyone to make a silencer on my lathe as long as they show me their approved ATF form 1, pay for material and kick in something extra for tooling and argon; usually $20. Although I've had plenty of interest in the offer, only three people have made a total of four silencers on my lathe. Coincidentally all of them are Sailors with secret or top secret clearances.

How important is variable speed?

You'll get better input for the experts, but my lathe's min speed is 125 rpm and I've never used it at any of the higher speeds. I have to adjust the drive belts to change the speed.

Randy

[punkinhead]

How important is variable speed?

To do a nice job you need to be able to change the speed to suit the diameter. The size lathe being discussed in this thread are generally used on small diameter stuff ( < 2") that likes to be turned at high RPM to get the right surface feet per minute, doubly so if you're cutting aluminum. Triply so if you're using carbide instead of HSS bits. At the other extreme, most mortals want to go as slow as possible when threading.