Yes, it can be legal to make a silencer. For everything Form-1, from silencer designs that are easily made, to filing forms with the BATF, to 3D modeling. Remember, you must have an approved BATF Form-1 to make a silencer. All NFA laws apply.
Well, I'm sketching out the silencer and thought I'd ask for a bit of input. The thing has a Gr 9 tube and Gr 5 internals with screwed on end caps. The dimensions are 1.625 O.D. and I picked 10 inches long as a nice round number (I think I need to shorten it).
The silencer will screw on to a QA/QD muzzle brake. As you can see there is a nice blast chamber around the muzzle brake, then a rather thick blast baffle apx .7 inch from the brake. The first three cones (smooth cones with a triple clip) have a spacer that is .7 inch. Then there are 4 more cones with a .5 spacer. And now I come to the big question. Should I toss in another baffle or shorten the tube to this point with an end cap?
This silencer will be for use on a 300blk AR that will see a diet of mostly sub-sonic ammo with the occasional super sonic hunting rounds.
My thought here is weld the back thread the front. the hole on the back side will be large enough you can fashion some sort of push tube to fit through and push everything out the front. Unless of course the dilemma is welding Ti than ill shut up and say looks good to me
"A man is known by the silence he keeps. - Oliver Herford"
"Gunpowder, treason and plot. I see no reason why gunpowder, treason
Should ever be forgot..."
Im going to follow this with interest also. I got sent out of town to do some work and had to put the Cheytac can on hold half way through. In the mean time I submitted another form one for the 300 blk SBR. When I get done here in a month or two the BLK. Can is next.
I told the Capt. That I wanted to build the quietest can we could and he is on board to help out.
Are you going to use the Griffen brake or ????
Greg
In Living Color Productions LLC
Oatman, Arizona, USA
Fun begins at 28 Mills elevation
I will say from a bunch of experience with sub sonic 300blk that I have by far had the best luck with K baffles. I know its not the design you have drawn up but it looks like you have plenty of room. I have also had better luck with smaller blast chambers on the sub sonics.
Curtis Tactical has been very gracious in sharing his designs on the 300blk in particular. The use of cones followed by K baffles is a good division of labor.The two baffles work in a near symbiotic way and when combined equals excellent suppression.Large blast chambers should be subdivided and timed with the brake to help eliminate FRP.A tube of 1.500" should be of sufficient diameter.
Here is a picture of at least one way of doing this.The superb work was done by Wicked.
The only reason after 243 years the government now wants to disarm you is they intend to do something you would shoot them for!
http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=79895
Hey there folks. Thank you for the replys and the PMs that I've received. It look more and more like I'm going to go with some combination of cones and Ks - provided I can figure out how to make a K baffle. I've scanned in the drawing I did of the Muzzle brake and will be posting that up for a more clear view of the blast chamber soon.
Ok, here's the drawing that has the muzzle device super-imposed into it.
I see a number of folks suggesting 1.5 O.D. Unfortunately that is not in the cards for this build. I have 1.625 Gr9 on hand so that is what will be used.
Does anyone think the distance from the end of the muzzle device to the blast baffle is too far? Also, the blast chamber wall is made of Gr5. The current sketch has that as being .1 thick. That may be over kill. What say you?
After some discussion I'm leaning toward 3 Cone baffles followed by 4 K baffles - provided I can figure where drill these magic holes in the K's. I may need a bit of help locating those holes. I understand I need a ball mill for one of the operations, yes? (oh, this build is all titanium so I'm curious how much more K baffles weigh over cones as I'd like to try and keep the weight down.
Ok, I think that's if for now. Please weigh in on what directions ya'll think I should go.
If I were building this as you have the front drawn, I'd put the mouth of that 1st cone closer to the end of the brake.
Is this a commercial brake or something you are making? Looks like it has a lot of excess material that you could remove so the brake doesn't eat up so much of your blast chamber volume.
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1.625" tubing will only help you. I would go 2 cones and 5 K's, and that thing will be awesome. I use an 11/32" ball nose end mill for the 30cal mouse holes. I would shorten the distance up a bit in front of the brake just to take some volume out of that chamber.
CMV wrote:If I were building this as you have the front drawn, I'd put the mouth of that 1st cone closer to the end of the brake.
Is this a commercial brake or something you are making? Looks like it has a lot of excess material that you could remove so the brake doesn't eat up so much of your blast chamber volume.
It's a homemade job. No fancy CAD drawing though. Heck, not even a Window Paint drawing, just some doodles on a note pad. LOL:
curtistactical wrote:1.625" tubing will only help you. I would go 2 cones and 5 K's, and that thing will be awesome. I use an 11/32" ball nose end mill for the 30cal mouse holes. I would shorten the distance up a bit in front of the brake just to take some volume out of that chamber.
Humm, how about 3 cones and 5 K's?
Should the blast baffle be vented in some way? I saw where someone had done a vented cone blast baffle where the vents were around the outside diameter of the cone. It was very interesting looking. (found it) It was done by Ken226 viewtopic.php?t=129752&start=25
Thank you for your input on this. Looks like some ideas are starting to make it to paper - and that's a big step for me.
The area shaded in red - why not remove some of that material? Looks like it's just taking up blast chamber space.
Or make something more like a JP or AAC brake that uses flats & a lot less overall material?
I might could remove some of that material but then I'd be looking at a less affective brake. I patterned the brake off of Benny Hill's Rolling Thunder brake used in 3-gun. The folks that use it are really happy with it.
If you look at the endcap/blast chamber, you will notice that the blast chamber is apx .100 thick. That's grade 5 titanium there so it may be a bit thicker than needed. What would you think of thinning that wall down to .07 or so? That will give me a bit more volume.
Thanks for looking at this with a different perspective. It is much appreciated.
OK folks, I've been looking at K-baffles until my eyes rolled back into my head. I've been able to rule out some of the "funky" modification ideas pretty easily but I've come to a bit of a stumble that I haven't seen a real answer to.
The skirt cone is usually 60 degrees, but the plate has some variation from manufacture to manufacture (person to person). Sometimes the plate is a straight 90 degrees, in relation to the skirt. And sometimes it has a bit of an angle to it - I've seen as much as what looks like 25-30 degrees. Is there any solid information as to what works best on the plate design?
The angle behind the face is for structural reinforcement of the face itself. The face is what takes the brunt of the pressure. The addition of this angle helps to add volume to the outer chamber created from the K's design. The angle also allows for deeper radius cuts/trepan in the face.
Thank you for the instruction T-Rex. That helps a lot.
OK folks, here's what I've got sketched out so far on the K baffle. They interlock but do not index. I don't have any of the dimensions written in but you can guestimate it by the rulers I have temporarily put on my sketch (window's Paint has a VERY strange ruler. Scanning in my own ruler graduated in 100's of an inch works MUCH better).
I'm not sure yet about how to do the drilling on the K-baffle. I see where you can plunge drill (mill) from the front, and then the back; BUT, I also see some doing a milling operation of some kind setting the baffle at a 45 degree angle. And I ALSO see where some are taking a milling cut on the front edge of the skirt. Sheeshssss!!! Have ya'll heard of the term "analysis paralysis"??? Auggg
Anyhow, here it is. Please offer up any suggestions ya'll have. AND, what the heck gives on how to drill/mill the ports and things on these infernal K-baffles???
L1A1Rocker wrote:Thank you for the instruction T-Rex. That helps a lot.
OK folks, here's what I've got sketched out so far on the K baffle. They interlock but do not index. I don't have any of the dimensions written in but you can guestimate it by the rulers I have temporarily put on my sketch (window's Paint has a VERY strange ruler. Scanning in my own ruler graduated in 100's of an inch works MUCH better).
I'm not sure yet about how to do the drilling on the K-baffle. I see where you can plunge drill (mill) from the front, and then the back; BUT, I also see some doing a milling operation of some kind setting the baffle at a 45 degree angle. And I ALSO see where some are taking a milling cut on the front edge of the skirt. Sheeshssss!!! Have ya'll heard of the term "analysis paralysis"??? Auggg
Anyhow, here it is. Please offer up any suggestions ya'll have. AND, what the heck gives on how to drill/mill the ports and things on these infernal K-baffles???
I'm midway through doing my own K can. Ball mill from the front and rear seems to be industry standard now so that is what I will be following. The 45° cut through makes it one operation instead of 2 but looking at gas flow I would think ball milling from both sides should be more effective. The cut on the skirt seems to be old tech.
This is how I did the face of it since I had the angled shoulder:
Again, not saying it's the 'correct' or 'preferred' method, just what i did & it worked on the baffles pictured above. More of my fancy CAD (you're jealous as a MF aren't you?) but this is roughly how I ground the tool & the form it cut vs the traditional flat or round channel I see most people use. My thinking was this removes more material and makes a deeper cut since that extra material is close to the bore on the shoulder. Also - & hard to tell from the baffle pics & the sketch above - I leave the center area just slightly longer than outside edge. Makes that little snout that sticks out a little further into the mouth of the preceding K. If there's any benefit to that, I have no idea, just how I did it.
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New to this forum but L1A1 posted this over on 300BLK forum, that's how I found it over here. Anyway I derp around with AutoCAD just to learn how to use it, figured I would mock up your K baffle as best I could for the hell of it. Took me longer than it rightfully should have but, I'm learning. Let me know if you would like to see any other views of it.
rpk47 wrote:New to this forum but L1A1 posted this over on 300BLK forum, that's how I found it over here. Anyway I derp around with AutoCAD just to learn how to use it, figured I would mock up your K baffle as best I could for the hell of it. Took me longer than it rightfully should have but, I'm learning. Let me know if you would like to see any other views of it.
Wow, talk about a great first post, that's most excellent. I'm working on some updates that have been suggested to me, such as reversing how the baffles interlock. So please, stay tuned.
Well here it is, I think this is it. Thanks for all the suggestions folks. There have been some great suggestions. CMV's idea on the trepan is very interesting. Have there been any comparisons done? Does anyone have any idea's about the thickness of the blast chamber? It seems a bit thick to me.
Curtis, I couldn't put in as many baffles as I had hoped. I was able to fit 2 cones and four K's. I moved the first cone in to apx .4 inch from the muzzle. The spacer after that is .7 and the next cone spacer is .625.
I think it's done but I'm always open to any suggestions ya'll have. Thanks guys!
Is that a spacer between the last cone and first baffle?
I would think you could fit either another cone or move the first k into that cone a bit more.
You have the blast area created by the muzzle brake so I would think you could move your first cone into the muzzle even more.
Is the option to weld available to you?
If so, you'd be able to loose the spacers and save some weight.
