HELP turning titanium. Locking up.

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L1A1Rocker
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Re: HELP turning titanium. Locking up.

Post by L1A1Rocker » Tue Feb 24, 2015 12:18 pm

300sniper wrote:
L1A1Rocker wrote:Well, I finally started on the titanium build. It didn't last long.

I set the Grade 5 bar up in the headstock and steady rest and got ready to do a facing cut on the end. The brass fingers were set just like my other projects - the brass fingers were set to just touch the roundstock and locked down. My newly purchased mysting midget was aimed at the facing tool. I turned on the lathe and it ran just long enough for me to engage the cross-feed before the lathe locked up and stopped dead.

What appears to be happening is that the titanium (at the contact points of the steady rest) is heating up, expanding out, and binding on the steady rest.

Any suggestions?
What were you lubing the contact points with?
30 wieght
Samson104 wrote:Sounds like you need a good 4 jaw chuck.
What size chuck does it use
It's a post 1969 Atlas 12 x 36. The chuck screws on to the headstock, I've never looked up the specs on the threads though.
Dr.K wrote:I've never had these issues! I do use a steady now and then, but mine has bearings. I can imagine the frustration though! Will it not fit through the spindle bore?
No, spindle bore is only 5/8 inch. Old Atlase 12 x 36
Historian wrote:
If your steady diameter is large enough you could machine a 1/8" ± thick SS ring
that slips onto the Ti tube; lube the fingers. Saw this trick so long ago in 1956
by Institute's machinist who working on a long thin walled metal tube ( ~ 12" ).

I once threaded a polycarbonate tube to make
my own darkroom water filter holder with the equatorial ring.
That's interesting. I don't have any stainless large enough, but may have some aluminum??

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L1A1Rocker
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Re: HELP turning titanium. Locking up.

Post by L1A1Rocker » Tue Feb 24, 2015 12:20 pm

Thanks for the replies folks. I've got some looking to do.

I'm going into town and get some crokus cloth to try that suggestion. I think I'll try and pick up some bearings too. I may end up trying to install some small barings on the fingers.

Again, thanks.

airsix
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Re: HELP turning titanium. Locking up.

Post by airsix » Tue Feb 24, 2015 4:03 pm

Here are a couple of things I hope will help.

1) I think your rest fingers might be gripping into the work when you lock them down. Mine do this. If I adjust them to perfection and then lock them they are too tight after being locked. Turn the spindle by hand as you are making adjustments to the fingers to insure there is no binding.

2) Indicating the work in the steady-rest:
This is critical to insure the part doesn't walk out of the chuck. Here is a video showing how you can indicate off the chuck to insure the work is perfectly aligned and that the steady rest fingers are not pulling it out of alignment. For example, if you were turning on a bearing surface and the fingers are pulling the work slightly off-center there would be no run-out, but the work could start to walk out of the chuck. When the fingers hit the edge of the bearing surface they could bind up. Tip: Measure your indicator's "sag" first and then adjust your measurements. For example, my indicator has 0.007" of sag when lined up with the lower fingers of the rest. I have to account for this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3V4_qFbQ-Q

3) When making a facing cut don't forget to put the lead screw in neutral. :D

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Re: HELP turning titanium. Locking up.

Post by BinaryAndy » Tue Feb 24, 2015 5:59 pm

That doesn't work so well on my old Atlas 12 x 36. I tried something like that with some stainless a long time ago. The work will wobble and on one occasion the work popped out of the jaws. IIRC the Atlas manual recommends a two point mount using the steady to better secure the work, and give more accurate work.
If the work wobbles and pops out of the chuck jaws, then either you've done something very wrong or you really badly need a new chuck. Properly holding a relatively short piece of stock in the chuck should be more secure and more accurate than working on the end of a long piece held with a chuck and steady rest (provided you use good machining practice, ie, turn all the important surfaces in one setup without unclamping).

The chuck should be holding on to at least about an inch of the stock, so to make a 2" long part you'll need a more than 3" long piece of stock. Holding on to too little is the only way I can imagine that a part would come out of the chuck without some sort of cataclysm to cause it.

You want to minimize the amount of stock sticking out of the chuck unsupported, no more than about 2 or 3 times the diameter of the part (under 1.5 diameters of stickout is preferred).

If you're doing all that and parts are still coming loose, then you probably need a new chuck.
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saigatechusa
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Re: HELP turning titanium. Locking up.

Post by saigatechusa » Wed Feb 25, 2015 1:56 pm

L1A1Rocker wrote:Thanks for the replies folks. I've got some looking to do.

I'm going into town and get some crokus cloth to try that suggestion. I think I'll try and pick up some bearings too. I may end up trying to install some small barings on the fingers.

Again, thanks.
the problem is Ti and brass don't play well together....it's galling

use 180 grit as long as part is smooth and round it works like a charm just lube the cloth

been doing this method for 30 yrs :wink:

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Re: HELP turning titanium. Locking up.

Post by T-Rex » Wed Feb 25, 2015 3:14 pm

saigatechusa wrote:
L1A1Rocker wrote:Thanks for the replies folks. I've got some looking to do.

I'm going into town and get some crokus cloth to try that suggestion. I think I'll try and pick up some bearings too. I may end up trying to install some small barings on the fingers.

Again, thanks.
the problem is Ti and brass don't play well together....it's galling

use 180 grit as long as part is smooth and round it works like a charm just lube the cloth

been doing this method for 30 yrs :wink:
Do you want the paper to rotate or stay in place and only the work to spin?
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Re: HELP turning titanium. Locking up.

Post by saigatechusa » Wed Feb 25, 2015 3:24 pm

T-Rex wrote:
saigatechusa wrote:
L1A1Rocker wrote:Thanks for the replies folks. I've got some looking to do.

I'm going into town and get some crokus cloth to try that suggestion. I think I'll try and pick up some bearings too. I may end up trying to install some small barings on the fingers.

Again, thanks.
the problem is Ti and brass don't play well together....it's galling

use 180 grit as long as part is smooth and round it works like a charm just lube the cloth

been doing this method for 30 yrs :wink:
Do you want the paper to rotate or stay in place and only the work to spin?
Grit side out......cloth stays stationary

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T-Rex
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Re: HELP turning titanium. Locking up.

Post by T-Rex » Wed Feb 25, 2015 4:07 pm

saigatechusa wrote: Grit side out......cloth stays stationary
This is what i thought.

I gave it a try on some 1.5" x 12" 316 bar, last night, with some 1000 grit, liberally lubed.

By the time I was done, the fingers had made their way through the paper, but it worked, nicely.
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Re: HELP turning titanium. Locking up.

Post by pyrofx » Wed Feb 25, 2015 5:01 pm

Crocus cloth and wet dry are two completely different animals. Glad the 1k worked for you , but when you try crocus it will be even better. Crocus is almst like levi's with grit on them.
Greg



T-Rex wrote:
saigatechusa wrote: Grit side out......cloth stays stationary
This is what i thought.

I gave it a try on some 1.5" x 12" 316 bar, last night, with some 1000 grit, liberally lubed.

By the time I was done, the fingers had made their way through the paper, but it worked, nicely.
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T-Rex
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Re: HELP turning titanium. Locking up.

Post by T-Rex » Wed Feb 25, 2015 5:15 pm

pyrofx wrote: Crocus cloth and wet dry are two completely different animals. Glad the 1k worked for you , but when you try crocus it will be even better. Crocus is almst like levi's with grit on them.
Greg
I just googled it.
I have this.
My grandfather was a butcher and he used this to sharpen his knives.
He'd cut it in strips, roughly 12", stack a half dozen or so and staple them to a wood stake, about 9" long.
When the top piece no longer did the job, tear it off and a fresh piece was below.
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Re: HELP turning titanium. Locking up.

Post by saigatechusa » Wed Feb 25, 2015 8:08 pm

T-Rex wrote:
saigatechusa wrote: Grit side out......cloth stays stationary
This is what i thought.

I gave it a try on some 1.5" x 12" 316 bar, last night, with some 1000 grit, liberally lubed.

By the time I was done, the fingers had made their way through the paper, but it worked, nicely.
I've never had crocus cloth wear thru

Just finger tighten fingers :lol: and you will be good. 8)

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Re: HELP turning titanium. Locking up.

Post by L1A1Rocker » Wed Feb 25, 2015 8:31 pm

This po-dunk little town never has what I need. I ordered some bearings from enco. . .

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Re: HELP turning titanium. Locking up.

Post by airsix » Thu Feb 26, 2015 1:38 pm

L1A1Rocker wrote:This po-dunk little town never has what I need. I ordered some bearings from enco. . .

Enco has the crocus cloth too. :wink:

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Re: HELP turning titanium. Locking up.

Post by john.t.little1 » Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:27 pm

piece of old levies could do the trick or phenolic if you have any
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Re: HELP turning titanium. Locking up.

Post by L1A1Rocker » Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:38 pm

airsix wrote:
L1A1Rocker wrote:This po-dunk little town never has what I need. I ordered some bearings from enco. . .

Enco has the crocus cloth too. :wink:
Yep, got a roll of that and an 11/32 ball end mill too.

I'm sure I'll have to grind at lease one new tool bit during this endeavor too. I almost ordered a 10% cobalt blank but I still have one (8 inches long so I can make two from it) in reserve.

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