Form 1 Reflex can input

Yes, it can be legal to make a silencer. For everything Form-1, from silencer designs that are easily made, to filing forms with the BATF, to 3D modeling. Remember, you must have an approved BATF Form-1 to make a silencer. All NFA laws apply.

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c5_nc
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Form 1 Reflex can input

Post by c5_nc » Mon Feb 23, 2015 12:05 pm

I am considering this layout for a reflex can. It would use a 8.375" Tube, for OAL of 8.7-8.9" with a Diversified Machine Ti low profile endcap. It would add 4 3/8" overall length to the host firearm. It would work on the Griffin reflex mount or the standard Griffin QD mount so I could still move it around. I found a 11.5" barrel with a small .068" gas port, so this with a standard gas block should in theory run great with with minimal blowback without having to regulate the gas system. It looked like it would work out to the same OAL as a 6.6" OAL (6" Tube) build, and the OAL is similar to the one Griffin makes for 5.56, so I'm thinking I am hearing safe here but too risky to go shorter. Input? I am flexable on length if more needs to be added but not sure if this can be shorter and still be effective. Planed tube would be 1.5 x 1.375" Ti G9.

As far as how it relates to my other builds, I have:

5.56
7.6" Ti Form 1 QD

7.62
10" Ti Liberty Freedom 5/8-24
8.9" Steel Form 1 5/8-24
8.9" Ti Form 1 QD
5.75" AL Form 1 5/8-24 (subsonics)

The second part of the question is the Grey tube in the picture is unbuilt and I have a form 1 back for 30cal for. It was intended to be a standard QD mount can. Looking at what I have already I guess I have that covered. Would the same layout work for 30cal reflex can. Opinions on would be hearing safe on 308 and 5.56? It would be 8.8" OAL but only a 4.25" past the brake, the tube is Ti 1.625x1.485.

Mock Up.
Image

I would drill holes in a washer for the reflex area
Image

Mock up with a shorter can I already had (7.6") on a 11.5" barrel.
Image

Image

c5_nc
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Re: Form 1 Reflex can input

Post by c5_nc » Sun Mar 01, 2015 12:18 pm

Anybody think good or bad on length? One shot deal and don't want to waist a lot of money!

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mr fixit
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Re: Form 1 Reflex can input

Post by mr fixit » Sun Mar 01, 2015 1:42 pm


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gunny50
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Re: Form 1 Reflex can input

Post by gunny50 » Sun Mar 01, 2015 3:05 pm

c5_nc wrote:Anybody think good or bad on length? One shot deal and don't want to waist a lot of money!

C5-NC

Quick question, Where are you located?

I would machine another connector / support of rt. long brake, not use a washer.

Gunny

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Re: Form 1 Reflex can input

Post by Bendersquint » Sun Mar 01, 2015 3:28 pm

gunny50 wrote:
c5_nc wrote:Anybody think good or bad on length? One shot deal and don't want to waist a lot of money!

C5-NC

Quick question, Where are you located?

I would machine another connector / support of rt. long brake, not use a washer.

Gunny
North Carolina

c5_nc
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Re: Form 1 Reflex can input

Post by c5_nc » Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:07 pm

gunny50 wrote:
c5_nc wrote:Anybody think good or bad on length? One shot deal and don't want to waist a lot of money!

C5-NC

Quick question, Where are you located?

I would machine another connector / support of rt. long brake, not use a washer.

Gunny
On the SS washers one is exact OD and ID I would need and is .065", one needs the ID opened bit but is .14". The Griffin cans that use them appear to use something looking like this, with a series of holes drilled around them of course. What would you recommend?

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Re: Form 1 Reflex can input

Post by sizulku » Thu Apr 02, 2015 1:47 pm

any updates ??

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Re: Form 1 Reflex can input

Post by c5_nc » Sat Apr 04, 2015 5:44 pm

No progress. This is my last stamp (that is what I am telling myself at least). Here is the mock up of a 8.9" that would be similar to the Griffin and OPS/Allen that are similar. However I have some questions about how effective it will be, not really much of a reflex space. Not all that much data to compare the OPS to other suppressors doesn't help. I built one similar with 7.6" 1.625 for 223 can, I have some concern I would build a 1.5" 8.9" long reflex and it would be not as good. I may build a smaller can instead, my current 8.9" on the Diversified Machine tube is 15.0oz, however a mockup of another 8" tube with ti spacers and Ti valve retainers is comming in at 12.0 oz. I think I could build a 5.5" 5.56 and stay in the 9.5-11oz range.

Image

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mr fixit
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Re: Form 1 Reflex can input

Post by mr fixit » Tue Apr 07, 2015 6:12 pm

c5_nc wrote:No progress. This is my last stamp (that is what I am telling myself at least). Here is the mock up of a 8.9" that would be similar to the Griffin and OPS/Allen that are similar. However I have some questions about how effective it will be, not really much of a reflex space. Not all that much data to compare the OPS to other suppressors doesn't help. I built one similar with 7.6" 1.625 for 223 can, I have some concern I would build a 1.5" 8.9" long reflex and it would be not as good. I may build a smaller can instead, my current 8.9" on the Diversified Machine tube is 15.0oz, however a mockup of another 8" tube with ti spacers and Ti valve retainers is comming in at 12.0 oz. I think I could build a 5.5" 5.56 and stay in the 9.5-11oz range.
Do you have any diagrams or pics of the Griffin or OPS/Allen? Just wondering how this design compares visually and the like. Assuming you based it on them?

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Re: Form 1 Reflex can input

Post by T-Rex » Tue Apr 07, 2015 7:09 pm

c5_nc

What are those baffles you have in your "mock-up" pic?

My personal opinion is the muzzle brake will hurt a true reflex design. You want the blast to be reflected rearward after contacting the blast baffle. If the muzzle gas is dispersing perpendicular to the trajectory flow, it would seem that, it would interfere with the gas' rearward path. I'm not saying you won't get any gas to go into the over-barrel portion, but it won't act in the way a reflex is designed to.

If one were so inclined, read as legally able to do so, he could slip a tight fitting SS sleeve over the muzzle brake and test both conditions. :wink:
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Re: Form 1 Reflex can input

Post by c5_nc » Sun Apr 12, 2015 9:29 am

mr fixit wrote:
c5_nc wrote:No progress. This is my last stamp (that is what I am telling myself at least). Here is the mock up of a 8.9" that would be similar to the Griffin and OPS/Allen that are similar. However I have some questions about how effective it will be, not really much of a reflex space. Not all that much data to compare the OPS to other suppressors doesn't help. I built one similar with 7.6" 1.625 for 223 can, I have some concern I would build a 1.5" 8.9" long reflex and it would be not as good. I may build a smaller can instead, my current 8.9" on the Diversified Machine tube is 15.0oz, however a mockup of another 8" tube with ti spacers and Ti valve retainers is comming in at 12.0 oz. I think I could build a 5.5" 5.56 and stay in the 9.5-11oz range.
Do you have any diagrams or pics of the Griffin or OPS/Allen? Just wondering how this design compares visually and the like. Assuming you based it on them?
I haven't seen cutaways or scans of either but the size is the same and the reflex and area past the barrel is very close to both, and I think cones stacked .5" in the space available is as good as you can get. The Griffin uses single clipped cones in the stack and the washer type mount is the same, the rear is just threaded 1"-20unf threaded without the taper. That is why it only works on the OTB mount, I would keep the taper on the mount on mine, so I could use on the OTB and standard mounts.

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Re: Form 1 Reflex can input

Post by c5_nc » Wed Apr 15, 2015 9:31 am

T-Rex wrote:c5_nc

What are those baffles you have in your "mock-up" pic?

My personal opinion is the muzzle brake will hurt a true reflex design. You want the blast to be reflected rearward after contacting the blast baffle. If the muzzle gas is dispersing perpendicular to the trajectory flow, it would seem that, it would interfere with the gas' rearward path. I'm not saying you won't get any gas to go into the over-barrel portion, but it won't act in the way a reflex is designed to.

If one were so inclined, read as legally able to do so, he could slip a tight fitting SS sleeve over the muzzle brake and test both conditions. :wink:
I was suspecting the brake would help. This was a previous design, the person that did this has not completed the build yet:

http://i60.tinypic.com/k4xh1d.jpg

http://i58.tinypic.com/5d6xpk.jpg

The threaded area could be reduced and a brake installed "inside" the can also. The Griffin and Ops/Allen don't appear to offer a lot of interior space on the reflex area. Also a reflex brake QD only part that doesn't have the adapter is being made, that is 3" of reflex space and 1" of brake. Sounds like I may be better off with that. I may just build a shorter all Ti can for 5.56, sounds like I can get it down to 10-11oz.

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Re: Form 1 Reflex can input

Post by c5_nc » Sat Apr 18, 2015 9:11 pm

T-Rex wrote:c5_nc


My personal opinion is the muzzle brake will hurt a true reflex design. You want the blast to be reflected rearward after contacting the blast baffle. If the muzzle gas is dispersing perpendicular to the trajectory flow, it would seem that, it would interfere with the gas' rearward path. I'm not saying you won't get any gas to go into the over-barrel portion, but it won't act in the way a reflex is designed to.

:
T-Rex,

I am guessing this route would be prefered from your perspective? These are Ti for a 1.75" Ti tube, but I would probably use 1.625 or 1.5" tube. A friend ordered the same thing with a brake mount.

http://i57.tinypic.com/2u6fnex.jpg

http://i57.tinypic.com/1411cnk.jpg

http://i62.tinypic.com/s2duz9.jpg

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Re: Form 1 Reflex can input

Post by T-Rex » Sat Apr 18, 2015 9:36 pm

I can't get this one to open. Might just be my phone, bit the other 2 are gtg.
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Re: Form 1 Reflex can input

Post by c5_nc » Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:10 am

T-Rex wrote:
I can't get this one to open. Might just be my phone, bit the other 2 are gtg.
Image

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Re: Form 1 Reflex can input

Post by ck4huns » Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:31 am

c5_nc wrote:No progress. This is my last stamp (that is what I am telling myself at least). Here is the mock up of a 8.9" that would be similar to the Griffin and OPS/Allen that are similar. However I have some questions about how effective it will be, not really much of a reflex space. Not all that much data to compare the OPS to other suppressors doesn't help. I built one similar with 7.6" 1.625 for 223 can, I have some concern I would build a 1.5" 8.9" long reflex and it would be not as good. I may build a smaller can instead, my current 8.9" on the Diversified Machine tube is 15.0oz, however a mockup of another 8" tube with ti spacers and Ti valve retainers is comming in at 12.0 oz. I think I could build a 5.5" 5.56 and stay in the 9.5-11oz range.

Image
Where can these blast baffle be purchased?

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Re: Form 1 Reflex can input

Post by gunny50 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:30 am

[quote="ck4huns"

Where can these blast baffle be purchased?[/quote]

Good day and welcome to ST.

Could you give more information about yourself?

Location where you live / country, skill set, tools you might have and experience with machines?
Do you already have silencers, and iff you do are these F1 or factory units?

Regards,

Gunny
http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=135514
http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=79895
http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=77913

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Re: Form 1 Reflex can input

Post by ck4huns » Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:22 am

gunny50 wrote:[quote="ck4huns"

Where can these blast baffle be purchased?
Good day and welcome to ST.

Could you give more information about yourself?

Location where you live / country, skill set, tools you might have and experience with machines?
Do you already have silencers, and iff you do are these F1 or factory units?

Regards,

Gunny[/quote]

I just delivered a few thousand of these cones to a middleman, made of titanium, stainless and aluminum. I have been always looking for the final distributor of these, but never found. My partner owns a CNC machining workshop. I helped to turn the designs into CAD drawings and had them machined.

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Re: Form 1 Reflex can input

Post by ck4huns » Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:43 am

I also hope to learn how do all the dimensions of the parts come, and how to design them.
Look at the cones here:
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bhqs_czBNwA/

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Re: Form 1 Reflex can input

Post by garredondojr » Tue Nov 20, 2018 6:04 pm

ck4huns wrote: I have been always looking for the final distributor of these, but never found. My partner owns a CNC machining workshop. I helped to turn the designs into CAD drawings and had them machined.
Why would you care if you made your money?

something smells a little fishy.

Probing for problems :roll:

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Re: Form 1 Reflex can input

Post by ck4huns » Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:29 pm

garredondojr wrote:
ck4huns wrote: I have been always looking for the final distributor of these, but never found. My partner owns a CNC machining workshop. I helped to turn the designs into CAD drawings and had them machined.
Why would you care if you made your money?

something smells a little fishy.

Probing for problems :roll:
The problem is we are not making much money because of the presence of the middlemen. Actually the final buyer gets those from middleman A who gets these from middleman B. B is my client. :?

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Re: Form 1 Reflex can input

Post by garredondojr » Thu Nov 22, 2018 3:49 pm

ck4huns wrote: The problem is we are not making much money because of the presence of the middlemen. Actually the final buyer gets those from middleman A who gets these from middleman B. B is my client. :?
Then setup a website and manage/sell your product direct if you know what you have. sounds like a simple solution to me.

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