73k fps gun shot

[halfsquelch]

I have no idea how many of you have seen this video but it definitely explains why a blast chamber is needed and does a very good job of showing what the gasses do after they exit the barrel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7y9apnbI6GA

[Capt. Link.]

With most traditional designs a blast chamber is required.They are not needed in many designs if you are willing to use better metals and improved porting with modern baffles.The old AWC Thundertrap had a chamber of less than .500 and was quiet and accurate.

Its a cool video and would be even better if time markers were available.I don't see why you think these chambers are needed.
-CL

[sucker76]

This video kinda goes along the same lines
https://youtu.be/fPqa3teOQkA

[Capt. Link.]

This video kinda goes along the same lines
https://youtu.be/fPqa3teOQkA

That's a very good video and probably lead the company who made it to improve its design.If you notice the duration of the flame through the suppressor it gives a indication of the effectiveness of the baffle design.I used templaque paint at one time to see how fast my designs would extinguish the flame front.The quicker the flame is extinguished the less gas the suppressor has to deal with.That is a somewhat simplified statement as other factors are at work and designs differ.
The high speed photography is great but it dose not give a tell all when the shot is contained.I saw some under water shots that are insightful as well.It led one of our more advanced members to change some of his designs with good success.

[whiterussian1974]

...it definitely explains why a blast chamber is needed and does a very good job of showing what the gasses do after they exit the barrel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7y9apnbI6GA

My only addition is that the partially combusted powder kernels didn't exit until the barrel pressure dropped enough that the grains were essentially "pulled" forward through the barrel. So that Blast Baffle serves 3 purposes: stronger 1st partial containment chamber, attempt to limit FRP, and sacrifice itself to pitting so that later baffles don't suffer as much. That's why a Stronger, Thicker, more erosion/abrasion resistant material and design are needed.

So Inconel or Stellite or replaceable muzzlebrake need to be used for centerfire cans.

[whiterussian1974]

This video kinda goes along the same lines https://youtu.be/fPqa3teOQkA

That's a very good video and probably lead the company who made it to improve its design.If you notice the duration of the flame through the suppressor it gives a indication of the effectiveness of the baffle design...
The high speed photography is great but it dose not give a tell all when the shot is contained.I saw some under water shots that are insightful as well.It led one of our more advanced members to change some of his designs with good success.

Was that IR footage? If the wedge baffles were off-center would that have shown the gas forming a zigzag pattern, or would it look the same under IR?

Also, which member? I'd like to ask them some ?s about methodology and which facets he changed after seeing a different perspective.

For instance: would the F-117 "Hopeless Diamond" refraction surfaces have any application to can design? Or would the extreme environment negate any such advantages?
I've wondered how the Expansion Fans and other fluid dynamic principles would translate to suppressor design.

[Capt. Link.]

...it definitely explains why a blast chamber is needed and does a very good job of showing what the gasses do after they exit the barrel.

So that Blast Baffle serves 3 purposes: stronger 1st partial containment chamber, attempt to limit FRP, and sacrifice itself to pitting so that later baffles don't suffer as much. That's why a Stronger, Thicker, more erosion/abrasion resistant material and design are needed.

So Inconel or Stellite or replaceable muzzlebrake need to be used for centerfire cans.

The subject was blast chamber not blast baffle though a baffle of the right material helps eliminate blast chambers without excessive erosion.
-CL

[halfsquelch]

My thought is that with most higher calibers a blast chamber would make the suppressor last longer as it provides a larger space for that initial pressure blast to be absorbed into.

[gunny50]

I have no idea how many of you have seen this video but it definitely explains why a blast chamber is needed and does a very good job of showing what the gasses do after they exit the barrel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7y9apnbI6GA

Check this as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OubvTOHWTms
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cp5gdUHFGIQ

Werner Mehl did some great work in slim as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfFoMyMoiX4

Gunny

[sucker76]

Are you asking if the whole chamber should be made of some different, stronger material or just the first baffle? I thought the "blast chamber" was simply the volume of space closest to the muzzle.

[Capt. Link.]

I don't like multiple posts so here goes.
Blast chambers do help preserve the baffle stack.The volume lowers the pressure and gas cutting.The distance between the muzzle and the first baffle lowers impact of UN-burnt powder.The lower pressure also makes it more quiet.You do pay the penalty of size and weight.

If you make the baffles and spacers in the blast area from a tough material it just lasts much longer.The walls of rifle caliber blast chambers do take a beating.

The underwater videos you posted are the ones I mentioned.
The best photo's I've seen are the ones that were filmed in Shock tubes its a type of Schelin photography. Here's a link to shock tube lectures: https://youtu.be/EhV7Z_ntzEQ I'm not the best researcher but many photos exist of the shock wave a bullet makes when it leaves a gun barrel.These are a bit more reveling that the plain photos.Now if Adam will add time mark's and distance and film a shot in a shock tube that would be some very interesting data.
-CL

[sucker76]

Thanks Capt.

[gunny50]

Capt,

Grat Photo.

link below gives some insight into shockwaves from projectiles.
PHYSICS OF FLUID
http://sourcedb.cas.cn/sourcedb_imech_c ... 303543.pdf


Gunny

[Capt. Link.]

Gunny you honer us with good on target information as usual.That is a fantastic paper.
FYI the picture I put up was taken against a diffraction gradient. A search of bullet shock waves will have the many types of studies done over the years.A study in IR would be interesting as well as WR inquired about.I know most of this work has been documented but to gather it requires a top research man like Doubloon hint hint nod nod wink wink!
-CL

halfsquelch:
Thank you for getting this started.Research that people can evaluate for themselves allows thought and development for future experiments to aid understanding.So many topics and only one lifetime to share them.

[Joker31D]

[quote="Capt. Link."]Now if Adam will add time mark's and distance and film a shot in a shock tube that would be some very interesting data.
-CL
If you mean Adam Savage, I might be able to ask him, I kinda have very limited access to ask him. Friend of a friend kinda stuff;)

[gunny50]

Now if Adam will add time mark's and distance and film a shot in a shock tube that would be some very interesting data.
-CL
If you mean Adam Savage, I might be able to ask him, I kinda have very limited access to ask him. Friend of a friend kinda stuff;)

Contacting AS, that would be great as the program that is used during and after recording uses a millisecond counter.
Also One could roughly calculate it back from raw footage as well.

information shown in video states 1200 fps for the projectile, take known measurement (gun size in mm),
measure max distance in the screen,
calculate it back to real size,
divide space between muzzle and bullet exiting the screen by time of flight
etc etc etc.


Gunny

[Joker31D]

I can ask him about the footage but I'm sure he has the data as well, he's big time into stuff like that. He is into noting raw data for later and cataloging it so others can use it. I'm guessing that was their 9mm 1911.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVMBIOR8SNQ
Schlieren Photography?

I sent an email to the foremost Schlieren Photography expert, my niece attends school at the same college and I may just visit soon to discuss it if he agrees to allow shots to be filmed after they leave the barrel and after they leave my Saker.

[gunny50]

CApt,

As to Schlieren fotagaphy.

Check below.
http://capturingcapacity.com/2015/01/12 ... en-images/

also shows a neat vid.


Gunny

[fastfire]

That's great, now for a Schlieren Photography of a suppressor when fired, or better yet a sh*t load of different types of suppressors fired and recorded using Schlieren Photography.

Schlieren Photography suppressor testing session, can't wait..

[Capt. Link.]

That's great, now for a Schlieren Photography of a suppressor when fired, or better yet a sh*t load of different types of suppressors fired and recorded using Schlieren Photography.

Schlieren Photography suppressor testing session, can't wait..

Use the Schlieren (a type of inferometer) with a diffraction grating.Its far more detailed in shock-wave detail.

This is fun stuff and with measurement and timing marks in combination with a shock tube/inferometry/and a diffraction grating will reveal some unique data.If a range of calibers were tested that would be super! Hear that Adam!
-CL

[fastfire]

That's great, now for a Schlieren Photography of a suppressor when fired, or better yet a sh*t load of different types of suppressors fired and recorded using Schlieren Photography.

Schlieren Photography suppressor testing session, can't wait..

Use the Schlieren (a type of inferometer) with a diffraction grating.Its far more detailed in shock-wave detail.

This is fun stuff and with measurement and timing marks in combination with a shock tube/inferometry/and a diffraction grating will reveal some unique data.If a range of calibers were tested that would be super! Hear that Adam!
-CL

ADAM, You can Do IT!
And you will have a bunch here prazing you for it!

[gunny50]

Gents,

If I would live over there, where you live I would volunteer to help him with all the guns I have.
And that is a remarkable list in SA and FA all the way up and above 12ga and 50 BMG, including suppressors for most of these.

Gunny

[whiterussian1974]

Gents,

If I would live over there, where you live I would volunteer to help him with all the guns I have.
And that is a remarkable list in SA and FA all the way up and above 12ga and 50 BMG, including suppressors for most of these.

Gunny

Fwd Gunny's info to Adam. Maybe they could fly to EU and tape a few episodes there on location. I'm sure that there are several other myths about the Autobahn and various European locations.