Legality of building a model?

[Matt in TN]

Would it bo legal to build a non-functional mock-up of a supressor (out of clear plastic, for example) in order to flow smoke through it and test your ideas before building under a Form 1?

Since no testing/development/changes are allowed once you build a suppressor, I'm trying to figure out a way I can test some ideas before committing to a single one. Logically this would clearly be no issue, as if it were used with a firearm it would blow apart and not contain the pressure - but logic doesn't always apply wih FedGov.

[Dr.K]

No go.

[Bendersquint]

Would it bo legal to build a non-functional mock-up of a supressor (out of clear plastic, for example) in order to flow smoke through it and test your ideas before building under a Form 1?

Since no testing/development/changes are allowed once you build a suppressor, I'm trying to figure out a way I can test some ideas before committing to a single one. Logically this would clearly be no issue, as if it were used with a firearm it would blow apart and not contain the pressure - but logic doesn't always apply wih FedGov.

No, it would be classified as a silencer. This is why people try to use CAD simulations to try and guess the effects.

[Matt in TN]

Dang. So much for logic!

[poikilotrm]

Course, if a fella built a motorcycle or remote control plane muffler... Well, I'm just saying, who's to say it ain't for a toy plane or a bike?

[Grounded]

Everyone needs a ghost can for their ghost gun lol.

[badgeredd]

It seems to me this one question that would be best answered by the BATFE. Kinds a case of getting the info from the horse's mouth so to speak.

[Capt. Link.]

It seems to me this one question that would be best answered by the BATFE. Kinds a case of getting the info from the horse's mouth so to speak.

If you get a ticket for running a red light do you still need to see the law in writing.

[Bendersquint]

It seems to me this one question that would be best answered by the BATFE. Kinds a case of getting the info from the horse's mouth so to speak.

You must be new to NFA... writing letters to the ATF doesn't end up good 95% of the time.

Research these topic to learn more.

GemTax, ChoreBoy, Atkins Accelerator.....there are more but that should show you the results of asking questions.

[poikilotrm]

It seems to me this one question that would be best answered by the BATFE. Kinds a case of getting the info from the horse's mouth so to speak.

Yeah. Good idea. They never lie.

[Capt. Link.]

Yeah. Good idea. They never lie.

Laws that deify logic is different than a lie.
You must speak BATFE .gov to understand the law's we have so most people don't understand them.
Inquiring causes re-writing of law that tend to be more narrow and restrictive for easy interpretation to the masses.
Thus screwing everyone in the process because someone didn't read.
-CL

[sickasssig]

I wonder if u made it very small like almost like small 1/2 inch od by 3 inches long just a little tiny suppresor exactly like u would make ur real one just a thought

[300sniper]

If it is not intended to be used on a firearm and can not readily be modified to be used on a firearm, I don't see the issue. I'm no lawyer, nor do I play one on TV.

[gunny50]

If it is not intended to be used on a firearm and can not readily be modified to be used on a firearm, I don't see the issue. I'm no lawyer, nor do I play one on TV.

I do not live in the US. But they sell airsoft and airgun silencers that are free to right?

These could not be used on a firearm. So engrave with airsoft?

Gunny

[Grounded]

If it is not intended to be used on a firearm and can not readily be modified to be used on a firearm, I don't see the issue. I'm no lawyer, nor do I play one on TV.

I do not live in the US. But they sell airsoft and airgun silencers that are free to right?

These could not be used on a firearm. So engrave with airsoft?

Gunny

Unfortunately those got banned too. I can dig up the letter somewhere.

[L1A1Rocker]

If it is not intended to be used on a firearm and can not readily be modified to be used on a firearm, I don't see the issue. I'm no lawyer, nor do I play one on TV.

I do not live in the US. But they sell airsoft and airgun silencers that are free to right?

These could not be used on a firearm. So engrave with airsoft?

Gunny

IIRC, ATF did prosecute someone for making an airsoft silencer. The claim was that it could "conceivably" be used on a .22. (note that it was not a "reasonable use" consideration that is used in most all legal standards, but a "conceivable use") But if I recall correctly, the ATF lost, which opened the door for unregulated airsoft silencers.

Of course my point is, ATF has a history of inconsistent, and aggressive prosecution of NFA laws. Making a model is not something I would ever do. I just don't want to be that "test case".

[T-Rex]

By the logic being put forth:

If I were to purchase machinery, with the sole purpose of fabricating a suppressor, whether legally or not, said machinery would be, in itself, deemed a suppressor.

From 18 U.S.C., § 921(A)(24)
any device, including any combination of parts, intended for the use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer


While I'm not advocating the fabrication of or intent to produce a "working model", I don't see how such an item, if constructed in a manner which wouldn't allow practical usage, on a firearm, could be deemed any different than a drawing, set of calculations or computer data stemming from CFD modeling.
I do not see anything in 18 U.S.C., § 921(A)(24) which precludes a manufacturer, being licensed or otherwise, from employing, common practice, design methods to construct a final product.

Please, do not confuse my reasoning w/ that of the misguided logic used by BATFE/NFA "interpreters".

[gunny50]

Everyone needs a ghost can for their ghost gun lol.

Grounded,

What was the silencer model for?

Looks like a prototype of some kind.
QD??

Gunny

[Bendersquint]

By the logic being put forth:

If I were to purchase machinery, with the sole purpose of fabricating a suppressor, whether legally or not, said machinery would be, in itself, deemed a suppressor.

From 18 U.S.C., § 921(A)(24)
any device, including any combination of parts, intended for the use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer

Creative but pretty far off, they are talking about parts and devices not a drill press, mill, lathe used to fabricate such devices etc....if that were the case your mailbox would be classified as a silencer as well since thats where your barstock delivered.....see how silly that sounds?

[Bendersquint]

If it is not intended to be used on a firearm and can not readily be modified to be used on a firearm, I don't see the issue. I'm no lawyer, nor do I play one on TV.

I do not live in the US. But they sell airsoft and airgun silencers that are free to right?

These could not be used on a firearm. So engrave with airsoft?

Gunny

IIRC, ATF did prosecute someone for making an airsoft silencer. The claim was that it could "conceivably" be used on a .22. (note that it was not a "reasonable use" consideration that is used in most all legal standards, but a "conceivable use") But if I recall correctly, the ATF lost, which opened the door for unregulated airsoft silencers.

Of course my point is, ATF has a history of inconsistent, and aggressive prosecution of NFA laws. Making a model is not something I would ever do. I just don't want to be that "test case".

The ATF HAS prosecuted against an removable airsoft silencer and they WON, this is why airsoft and bb gun silencers are permanent and can't be removed.

The argument was that even with duct tape it could be held on and suppress a single round even though it would be destroyed in doing so. Nothing out there says it has to survive the shot only that it suppress the round.

[colimr]

Probably the best advice you will get is do not do it. Along side that is the opinion if you are going to do it DO NO ANNOUNCE OR POST THAT YOU DID OR WILL DO IT. The BATF makes the rules and they decide. You will most likely get arrested if you tell everyone hey see what I did. They love to make examples of the little people like the school yard bully they are. There are plenty of members here with years of experience who can help you get the information your looking for because they have seen or done it. If your just looking for that hey see what I built moment roll the dice. If your really looking for the best or most efficient design just look at the member list and you will find all the knowledge you seek

[Grounded]

Everyone needs a ghost can for their ghost gun lol.

Grounded,

What was the silencer model for?

Looks like a prototype of some kind.
QD??

Gunny

3d model of our production version of our can. The can is qd, takedown, and modular between not only calibers but integral/qd/direct thread configs. Works pretty darn well

[Grounded]

I will add that it would be nice for the ASA to work with the ATF to establish a standard for suppressor parts that jives with the standard used for firearms. You would have your serialized parts and those are the only controlled parts... end of story.

[Bendersquint]

I will add that it would be nice for the ASA to work with the ATF to establish a standard for suppressor parts that jives with the standard used for firearms. You would have your serialized parts and those are the only controlled parts... end of story.

That ship sailed years ago, don't think its coming into port anytime in the next decade.

[Grounded]

I will add that it would be nice for the ASA to work with the ATF to establish a standard for suppressor parts that jives with the standard used for firearms. You would have your serialized parts and those are the only controlled parts... end of story.

That ship sailed years ago, don't think its coming into port anytime in the next decade.

I think it would only come to be if they came off the NFA registry. We both know how realistic that is