Ridged vs. stepped cones

Yes, it can be legal to make a silencer. For everything Form-1, from silencer designs that are easily made, to filing forms with the BATF, to 3D modeling. Remember, you must have an approved BATF Form-1 to make a silencer. All NFA laws apply.

Moderators: mpallett, bakerjw

Post Reply
User avatar
whiterussian1974
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 2725
Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2013 12:37 am
Location: On 8th line of eye chart.

Ridged vs. stepped cones

Post by whiterussian1974 » Sat Nov 21, 2015 12:49 pm

I was commenting on some other topics that got me thinking. So I sketched some ideas. It wasn't germane to those topics, so I'll post here.

(The left pic is the one I'm discussing. The right was for another OP's ?.)

It seems like a series of thin external ribs would act like an "inverse Omega" theory. Trapping gas in pockets along the outside instead of shunting them to a coaxial chamber. Plus, the OD of the ribs mean that they would introduce choked flow.

The top brown rib would be removed. I just left it there b/c it began as a .223 baffle. .308 would need the cone mouth to "part" the jet. And of course, the asymmetric notched mouth.

Any thoughts or suggestions? Other than to stop sitting on my head! :lol: :lol: :lol:
Image
The Darkest Corners of Hell are reserved for those who remain Neutral!-Dante
The Death of One is a Tragedy, a million only a statistic.-Stalin
Well I AM 1/16 Demon on my Father's Side!-Dresden Files

User avatar
Bendersquint
Industry Professional
Posts: 11359
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 9:19 pm
Location: North Carolina
Contact:

Re: Ridged vs. stepped cones

Post by Bendersquint » Sat Nov 21, 2015 6:10 pm

Finns like you have described to not work well in rifle cans, they tend to collapse and not have any notable advantage unless you are paid by the hour for fabricating them.

User avatar
Dr.K
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 632
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2007 9:32 pm
Location: Webster Parish

Re: Ridged vs. stepped cones

Post by Dr.K » Mon Nov 23, 2015 12:21 am

Bendersquint wrote: not have any notable advantage unless you are paid by the hour for fabricating them.
Ha ha ha!
Kyle O.

0101silent
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 174
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 1:09 pm
Location: Ohio

Re: Ridged vs. stepped cones

Post by 0101silent » Tue Nov 24, 2015 9:49 am

--
Last edited by 0101silent on Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Bendersquint
Industry Professional
Posts: 11359
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 9:19 pm
Location: North Carolina
Contact:

Re: Ridged vs. stepped cones

Post by Bendersquint » Tue Nov 24, 2015 5:48 pm

0101silent wrote:
Bendersquint wrote:Finns like you have described to not work well in rifle cans, they tend to collapse and not have any notable advantage unless you are paid by the hour for fabricating them.
It sounds like you and/or other professionals thought this design was a good enough idea to take the time to machine it, but it just wasn't as durable or perform as well as you or other professional suppressor designers expected.
I have buckets FULL of baffle ideas we have tried, along these lines were something we experimented in 2012 with...wasn't worth it for ROI. I know of at least 2 other manufacturers that have explored that concept too and wasn't worth it.

User avatar
whiterussian1974
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 2725
Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2013 12:37 am
Location: On 8th line of eye chart.

Re: Ridged vs. stepped cones

Post by whiterussian1974 » Wed Nov 25, 2015 6:11 pm

Bendersquint wrote:
0101silent wrote:It sounds like you and/or other professionals thought this design was a good enough idea to take the time to machine it, but it just wasn't as durable or perform as well as you or other professional suppressor designers expected.
I have buckets FULL of baffle ideas we have tried, along these lines were something we experimented in 2012 with...wasn't worth it for ROI. I know of at least 2 other manufacturers that have explored that concept too and wasn't worth it.
Which 2? Since they no longer use them, there shouldn't be any public disclosure conflict.

And what about in pistol cans? Let's consider it for 9mm.
Would lower pressures work better? Or maybe just using them further down the stack after the pressures have lowered?

Sig or Surefire uses Ks w 4 longitudinal braces supporting the single plate. Maybe we could drill holes b/t the fins to create a beehive? Then each would support the rest. :)
The only problem would be carbon fouling if used in the first 2 chambers. So just don't include them there. :wink:
The Darkest Corners of Hell are reserved for those who remain Neutral!-Dante
The Death of One is a Tragedy, a million only a statistic.-Stalin
Well I AM 1/16 Demon on my Father's Side!-Dresden Files

User avatar
Capt. Link.
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 2526
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 10:05 pm
Location: USA.

Re: Ridged vs. stepped cones

Post by Capt. Link. » Wed Nov 25, 2015 7:12 pm

whiterussian1974 wrote:Which 2? Since they no longer use them, there shouldn't be any public disclosure conflict.

And what about in pistol cans? Let's consider it for 9mm.
Would lower pressures work better? Or maybe just using them further down the stack after the pressures have lowered?

Sig or Surefire uses Ks w 4 longitudinal braces supporting the single plate. Maybe we could drill holes b/t the fins to create a beehive? Then each would support the rest. :)
The only problem would be carbon fouling if used in the first 2 chambers. So just don't include them there. :wink:
Why not test for yourself if you think a major breakthrough is being lost.I'm sort of shocked you are asking B to commit professional suicide w/ disclosure.
Image
-CL
The only reason after 243 years the government now wants to disarm you is they intend to do something you would shoot them for!

User avatar
jreinke
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 1226
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 12:32 am
Location: WI, USA
Contact:

Re: Ridged vs. stepped cones

Post by jreinke » Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:43 am

Aren't stepped cones covered under Doug Melton's Aztec baffle patent?
[url=http://militarysignatures.com][img]http://militarysignatures.com/signatures/member1236.png[/img][/url]

User avatar
Bendersquint
Industry Professional
Posts: 11359
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 9:19 pm
Location: North Carolina
Contact:

Re: Ridged vs. stepped cones

Post by Bendersquint » Tue Dec 01, 2015 7:29 pm

0101silent wrote:Which 2? Since they no longer use them, there shouldn't be any public disclosure conflict.
If I were going to disclose the manufacturers I would have. More often than not the work done in R&D is worth more protection than the pieces in production.

As the good CPT said, I am not about to commit professional suicide by disclosing data sources.
0101silent wrote:Sig or Surefire uses Ks w 4 longitudinal braces supporting the single plate. Maybe we could drill holes b/t the fins to create a beehive? Then each would support the rest. :)
The only problem would be carbon fouling if used in the first 2 chambers. So just don't include them there. :wink:
I am sure that Sig did their reserach and if ports would have improved performance they would be implemented in the baffles.

Historian
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 3232
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2010 11:37 pm

Re: Ridged vs. stepped cones

Post by Historian » Tue Dec 01, 2015 7:55 pm

Bendersquint wrote:
0101silent wrote:Which 2? Since they no longer use them, there shouldn't be any public disclosure conflict.
If I were going to disclose the manufacturers I would have. More often than not the work done in R&D is worth more protection than the pieces in production.

As the good CPT said, I am not about to commit professional suicide by disclosing data sources.
0101silent wrote:Sig or Surefire uses Ks w 4 longitudinal braces supporting the single plate. Maybe we could drill holes b/t the fins to create a beehive? Then each would support the rest. :)
The only problem would be carbon fouling if used in the first 2 chambers. So just don't include them there. :wink:
I am sure that Sig did their reserach and if ports would have improved performance they would be implemented in the baffles.
+2

"Sources and Methods must be protected at all costs" - from past lives. B & Good Captain are true blue again.
Old oaths never to be broken.

Tony M.
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 368
Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2013 12:42 am
Location: FL

Re: Ridged vs. stepped cones

Post by Tony M. » Wed Dec 02, 2015 3:01 am

Capt. Link. wrote:I'm sort of shocked you are asking B to commit professional suicide w/ disclosure.
Have you read WR's other posts?

User avatar
whiterussian1974
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 2725
Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2013 12:37 am
Location: On 8th line of eye chart.

Re: Ridged vs. stepped cones

Post by whiterussian1974 » Sat Dec 05, 2015 2:05 pm

Tony M. wrote:
Capt. Link. wrote:I'm sort of shocked you are asking B to commit professional suicide w/ disclosure.
Have you read WR's other posts?
He was probably being kind to both of us.
1st by ascribing innocent naïveté to me.
2nd by conferring professional cover to B. 8)
The Darkest Corners of Hell are reserved for those who remain Neutral!-Dante
The Death of One is a Tragedy, a million only a statistic.-Stalin
Well I AM 1/16 Demon on my Father's Side!-Dresden Files

User avatar
whiterussian1974
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 2725
Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2013 12:37 am
Location: On 8th line of eye chart.

Re: Ridged vs. stepped cones

Post by whiterussian1974 » Sat Dec 05, 2015 2:07 pm

Bendersquint wrote:If I were going to disclose the manufacturers I would have. More often than not the work done in R&D is worth more protection than the pieces in production.
Good points. (Darn! :( )
The Darkest Corners of Hell are reserved for those who remain Neutral!-Dante
The Death of One is a Tragedy, a million only a statistic.-Stalin
Well I AM 1/16 Demon on my Father's Side!-Dresden Files

Post Reply