New Design

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silencer_kid
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New Design

Post by silencer_kid » Fri Jan 08, 2016 10:09 am

an internal piece for a new can. 3-4 more pieces that go with this, but due to it being a new design i cant shown them here.
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L1A1Rocker
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Re: New Design

Post by L1A1Rocker » Fri Jan 08, 2016 10:19 am

I've seen something similar posted here before. It was a take off of some strangely named design from long long ago. Wish I could remember what the term used was. IIRC it was discussed in the thread about the Tesla Valve.

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Re: New Design

Post by gunny50 » Fri Jan 08, 2016 11:48 am

"silencer_kid"

Ferrat's spiral

A Eastern Block did use something like this for FA weapon systems.
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=135886


Gunny

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Re: New Design

Post by L1A1Rocker » Fri Jan 08, 2016 11:54 am

gunny50 wrote:"silencer_kid"

Ferrat's spiral

A Eastern Block did use something like this for FA weapon systems.
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=135886


Gunny

THAT'S IT. Thanks Gunny.

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Re: New Design

Post by gunny50 » Fri Jan 08, 2016 12:12 pm

L1A1Rocker wrote:
gunny50 wrote:"silencer_kid"
Ferrat's spiral
A Eastern Block did use something like this for FA weapon systems.
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=135886
Gunny

THAT'S IT. Thanks Gunny.
You are So welcome L1A1.
I would weld cones with machined spacers inside the spirals, leave 3mm space between each, weld an end-cap on, stick it in a tube and use it on a ..... :D
PS its not new, done before with Stainless flat spiral springs around the cones. all welded.
Gunny

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Re: New Design

Post by propeine » Fri Jan 08, 2016 12:37 pm

silencer_kid wrote:an internal piece for a new can. 3-4 more pieces that go with this, but due to it being a new design i cant shown them here.
Image
Reminds me of the OSS series for a more recent suppressor. That didn't go over so well from what I saw.

If stamps were free and I had a 3D printer I'd try casting some wild stuff like this.

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Re: New Design

Post by silencer_kid » Fri Jan 08, 2016 12:40 pm

well, helix's are not new i suppose, but from here there are many options for additional parts to be added which can control the exiting gas envelope. so, i guess its more about "improvements" than it is "new", but at the end i hope for it to be overall new.

the center section will be a "chamber" (might be like cone baffles, might not be), the end of the spiral fingers will be "capped" (just the ID) and when in the can there is a chamber for gases traversing the helix to expand into. the gases will be trapped here for some short time and will need to reverse direction to exit. the exit path(s) are where i am focusing to do some trickery in an effort to time delay the exit, etc. it will take some time to design the final pieces, etc.

if you want to venture into the physics of it all, here's one way to study it. hot explosive gas enters the blast chamber and then has to traverses smaller tubes as it crosses the helix (some still exit down the center, but the area of the helix ports are much higher than the center). now, look closer at the gas as it has to transition from chamber to the helix tubes. there's a balance between # of helix fingers and benefit. too many fingers take up too much volume, too few and you dont get their benefit. and remember, some posts on this site reference the Helmholtz resonator. i am very familiar with Helmholtz, but one big caveat about it, what i have is not Helmholtz, but a Helmholtz design to get max benefit is a design for one specific application. suppressors are not a one design fits all, etc.

the OSS design, not eactly what i am doing, i more of a hybrid
http://osssuppressors.com/suppressors/

...and, there are no springs, no welding either. all CNC'd. the only way i would weld small internal pieces that need to retain precision alignment is either with a pulsed laser ($$$) or with the very slow technique using pen style CD spot welder.
Last edited by silencer_kid on Fri Jan 08, 2016 8:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: New Design

Post by gunny50 » Fri Jan 08, 2016 1:54 pm

silencer_kid wrote:
...and, there are no springs, no welding either. all CNC'd. the only way i would weld small internal pieces that need to retain precision alignment is either with a pulsed laser ($$$) or with the very slow technique using pen style CD spot welder.

I did not use the springs as springs, but used the flat-wire compression springs all cut up like your helix but than preseason welded them to the core, TIG. I do Wels TIG or LASER all my L&E and military models.
It gave the right spacing to outside and allowed gasses to expand to outer perimeter.
The spacers machined to the cone made sure the flow did not directly go back in the stream of the mainstream and that the mainstream gasflow that was cut by the cone would be jetted to outer wall and collide with the flow following the helix.
Worked like a charm, was a B#tch to machine and make and as time is money.... would not be cheap for serial production at that time in my career.

Gunny

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Re: New Design

Post by silencer_kid » Fri Jan 08, 2016 2:12 pm

gunny50 wrote:
silencer_kid wrote:
...and, there are no springs, no welding either. all CNC'd. the only way i would weld small internal pieces that need to retain precision alignment is either with a pulsed laser ($$$) or with the very slow technique using pen style CD spot welder.

I did not use the springs as springs, but used the flat-wire compression springs all cut up like your helix but than preseason welded them to the core, TIG. I do Wels TIG or LASER all my L&E and military models.
It gave the right spacing to outside and allowed gasses to expand to outer perimeter.
The spacers machined to the cone made sure the flow did not directly go back in the stream of the mainstream and that the mainstream gasflow that was cut by the cone would be jetted to outer wall and collide with the flow following the helix.
Worked like a charm, was a B#tch to machine and make and as time is money.... would not be cheap for serial production at that time in my career.

Gunny
doesnt TIG cause some HAZ issues? i can tig with very low amps, for me just hasnt been used that way for small parts like this. i guess if its a tack here or there and it doesnt affect alignment and HAZ is ok, then surely a good use of TIG.

what type of db reduction did you get?

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Re: New Design

Post by Capt. Link. » Fri Jan 08, 2016 6:24 pm

Spirals in general work well in the coaxial space created by some designs.I have used them as spacers and to control gas in integral ported suppressors.They have been used in some recent patents by Gregory Latka for pressure control.He also has a patent on one of the best so far use of spirals in a suppressor here: https://patentimages.storage.googleapis ... 9512-1.png
Even the De Lisle carbine used a spiral with good effect which is not the normal outcome of spiral use.
-CL
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Re: New Design

Post by gunny50 » Fri Jan 08, 2016 8:17 pm

Capt. Link. wrote:Spirals in general work well in the coaxial space created by some designs.I have used them as spacers and to control gas in integral ported suppressors.They have been used in some recent patents by Gregory Latka for pressure control.He also has a patent on one of the best so far use of spirals in a suppressor here: https://patentimages.storage.googleapis ... 9512-1.png
Even the De Lisle carbine used a spiral with good effect which is not the normal outcome of spiral use.
-CL
Capt,

Nice patent.

See what the Germans designed in WW2 for the MP 40
Image
Image
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Re: New Design

Post by T-Rex » Fri Jan 08, 2016 9:00 pm

Thats like a screw-axial, K-cone.
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Re: New Design

Post by Capt. Link. » Fri Jan 08, 2016 9:04 pm

That is a suppressor that I would like to see metered.I asked you about it in a different post if you recall.I have a variant of a helical design where a wide flat spring is wound on a incline forming a cone of sorts.A dome shape would also catch the gas well.While the suppression may not be great it would make a good thermal diffuser or flash suppressor.

Check out US8910745 you will see shades of Mitch Werbel and the Hel can with a helical twist to a dump valve. 8)
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Re: New Design

Post by jreinke » Sat Jan 09, 2016 7:26 am

Capt. Link. wrote:Check out US8910745 you will see shades of Mitch Werbel and the Hel can with a helical twist to a dump valve. 8)
I wonder what caliber that can is designed for with venting from the expansion chamber? :?

ETA: Check Gemtech's entire line of suppressors and none of the current ones have vent holes in the rear.
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Re: New Design

Post by fastfire » Sat Jan 09, 2016 9:39 am

gunny50 wrote:
Capt. Link. wrote:Spirals in general work well in the coaxial space created by some designs.I have used them as spacers and to control gas in integral ported suppressors.They have been used in some recent patents by Gregory Latka for pressure control.He also has a patent on one of the best so far use of spirals in a suppressor here: https://patentimages.storage.googleapis ... 9512-1.png
Even the De Lisle carbine used a spiral with good effect which is not the normal outcome of spiral use.
-CL
Capt,

Nice patent.

See what the Germans designed in WW2 for the MP 40
Image
Image
Gunny
These look to be cast.

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Re: New Design

Post by silencer_kid » Sat Jan 09, 2016 11:17 am

they look like mini rocket engines. its a "de Laval" nozzle.

the 1st radial hole sits behind the exit of the nozzle. the other two holes are right at the nozzle exit.

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Re: New Design

Post by fastfire » Sun Jan 10, 2016 1:14 am

The baffles look die cast?

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Re: New Design

Post by gunny50 » Sun Jan 10, 2016 8:44 am

fastfire wrote:
These look to be cast.

They are, and that for a product made like 70 years ago.

I'll check but I thought these where bakelite.

Gunny
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Re: New Design

Post by fastfire » Sun Jan 10, 2016 9:42 am

gunny50 wrote:
fastfire wrote:
These look to be cast.

They are, and that for a product made like 70 years ago.

I'll check but I thought these where bakelite.

Gunny
Now that ya mentioned it, that does look like bakelite, That would make them VERY light..................
Never thought about bakelite...... how long would they last?

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Re: New Design

Post by alordnapa » Sun Jan 10, 2016 12:22 pm

The thing about "new designs" is that are hardly ever "new designs"...I bet Archimedes has the ancient Patent or papyrus somewhere on file! If you had not pointed out the photo with the sprue, I would have thought that those German baffles were hand welded on a tube. That design to me screams our for an EDM production process; those radials would vibrate like a tuning fork on most metal cutting machines,

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Re: New Design

Post by fastfire » Sun Jan 10, 2016 5:32 pm

alordnapa wrote:The thing about "new designs" is that are hardly ever "new designs"...I bet Archimedes has the ancient Patent or papyrus somewhere on file! If you had not pointed out the photo with the sprue, I would have thought that those German baffles were hand welded on a tube. That design to me screams our for an EDM production process; those radials would vibrate like a tuning fork on most metal cutting machines,

didn't see a sprue but (flash) mold seam lines.

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