Two cans to fit them all, experienced advice please

[Skorch]

Hosts: 300 blackout 8" AR-15 95% using cast subsonic, thinking of threading barrel of Marlin .22LR, 20" AR-15 5.56, and possibly a .308.

Equipment: Limited access to employers work shop, and just recently a friend bought a hobby lathe.

Details:
I have an approved Form 1 and a Titanium 8" long 1.5" OD, 1.375" ID tube with 5/8" direct thread end. Approval of 41P has me thinking of filing for another.

I was just going to a make a freeze plug builds, SubSonic, C5, and Infinite Grim have proved that they work, and since I have no machining experience it appears to be the easiest. However, my friend acquiring a lathe opens the possibility to make internals which has limitless possibilities (K baffles, cones, reflex mount).

Observations:
Dr. K and Samson state that 7 60deg cones works great for blackout, but I believe I remember close spacing might not be as good for 5.56 and .308. Captain Link, Delta, and many others state that K baffles work great for rimfire and pistols, but not for faster rounds. Reflex designs would work great on the 20" AR, but unable to use on the SBR blackout. All the other designs I have read about I believe are above my capabilities of learning this time around.

Questions:
1) As stated freeze plugs work, they seem to last, but can machined parts be quieter? They are no doubt more robust.

2) Do I make one can for subsonic loads (blackout and 22lr), and the other for supper (5.56 and .308 even though used a lot less), or is it better to just have dedicated cans for the hosts that get used the most? This is where I get stuck.

3) Are there advantages to using flash hider over direct thread? I know it saves wear on the blast baffle, but anything other than that? Does it aid in suppression?

4) Materials: Titanium dissipates heat good, very strong up to a certain temp, and very light. Inclonel and 17-4 stainless recommended for blast baffles, but add weight. I spoke to a co-work who is a metallurgist about pros/cons of each metal. He mentioned to look into Nickel as well. Is there a reason I have not ever seen Nickel used in any builds?

5) Baffle Coating, I haven't read anything on this topic, but does this just aid in cleaning if the can has the ability to be taken apart?

Sorry to make this long just wanted to make sure everyone didn't think I didn't do any reading first. There are pros/cons to every design. My hosts have some similarities, but of course are very different too. I'm just looking for ideas on what would be the most effective designs to cover all my hosts. Number one is "hollywood quiet" for blackout and 22lr, but it would be nice if I could get the edge taken off of the 5.56 and a .308.

[Skorch]

Alright since I don't have any comments yet I'll list what I was thinking of doing.

Since I have an 8" 1.5" ID tube and ends already. I was planning on following Samson and Dr. K's advice and going with 60 degree cones clipped. I do question how quiet this method will be as it is an 1" shorter, and I believe the diameter is slightly narrower than Dr. K's.

That can would obviously be overkill for a 22.lr, but will it still make it where I can only hear the action, or is it too big and have negative returns? How well would this work on a 5.56 or 308? This would make my 5.56 really long though. I really wanted to get feedback on anyone that has tried this as it would effect what the second can would be. It would determine if I dedicate the second can for the supersonics (5.56 and .308) or make a K baffle .22lr dedicated can.

Secondly, I was really hoping anyone would chime in on my metallurgists suggestion to look into using Nickel. Is it just that manufactures haven't used it? Has anyone tried it?

[propeine]

Hosts: 300 blackout 8" AR-15 95% using cast subsonic, thinking of threading barrel of Marlin .22LR, 20" AR-15 5.56, and possibly a .308.

Equipment: Limited access to employers work shop, and just recently a friend bought a hobby lathe.

Details:
I have an approved Form 1 and a Titanium 8" long 1.5" OD, 1.375" ID tube with 5/8" direct thread end. Approval of 41P has me thinking of filing for another.

I was just going to a make a freeze plug builds, SubSonic, C5, and Infinite Grim have proved that they work, and since I have no machining experience it appears to be the easiest. However, my friend acquiring a lathe opens the possibility to make internals which has limitless possibilities (K baffles, cones, reflex mount).

Observations:
Dr. K and Samson state that 7 60deg cones works great for blackout, but I believe I remember close spacing might not be as good for 5.56 and .308. Captain Link, Delta, and many others state that K baffles work great for rimfire and pistols, but not for faster rounds. Reflex designs would work great on the 20" AR, but unable to use on the SBR blackout. All the other designs I have read about I believe are above my capabilities of learning this time around.

Questions:
1) As stated freeze plugs work, they seem to last, but can machined parts be quieter? They are no doubt more robust.

2) Do I make one can for subsonic loads (blackout and 22lr), and the other for supper (5.56 and .308 even though used a lot less), or is it better to just have dedicated cans for the hosts that get used the most? This is where I get stuck.

3) Are there advantages to using flash hider over direct thread? I know it saves wear on the blast baffle, but anything other than that? Does it aid in suppression?

4) Materials: Titanium dissipates heat good, very strong up to a certain temp, and very light. Inclonel and 17-4 stainless recommended for blast baffles, but add weight. I spoke to a co-work who is a metallurgist about pros/cons of each metal. He mentioned to look into Nickel as well. Is there a reason I have not ever seen Nickel used in any builds?

5) Baffle Coating, I haven't read anything on this topic, but does this just aid in cleaning if the can has the ability to be taken apart?

Sorry to make this long just wanted to make sure everyone didn't think I didn't do any reading first. There are pros/cons to every design. My hosts have some similarities, but of course are very different too. I'm just looking for ideas on what would be the most effective designs to cover all my hosts. Number one is "hollywood quiet" for blackout and 22lr, but it would be nice if I could get the edge taken off of the 5.56 and a .308.

Welcome to my dual use design. Reflex for 300blk, full depth for 5.56. The baffles could be freeze plugs just as easy as they could be frustocones. Not overly good at any one thing but fills a couple roles. You would have to change end caps.

Make another can for 22LR. You can make it considerably smaller and lighter. Use K baffles for it instead. File more form(s).

[Skorch]

Thanks for the idea. Have you been able to compare it to any other cans? How quiet is it on the blackout? FRP? Did you clip the cones at all, and if so do you worry about keeping them lined up?

[propeine]

Thanks for the idea. Have you been able to compare it to any other cans? How quiet is it on the blackout? FRP? Did you clip the cones at all, and if so do you worry about keeping them lined up?

There are 5 baffles sitting at my house with a tube and 2 end caps. I'm waiting on more titanium so no results yet. Here is where I drew some inspiration from. He has videos
viewtopic.php?t=134954

[Skorch]

I have followed C5 since he started making builds mid year 2014, but stopped reading about it last year. Didn't know anything about the reflex design. It is starting to look more attractive although my handguard and barrel on my blackout wouldn't allow a reflex mount.It would be nice on the 5.56 so it wasn't a 20in barrel plus the can, but 5.56 is going to need a bigger blast chamber.

It is good to know that the same suppressor can be used on the blackout and 5.56. That would allow me to make a dedicated 22lr. It would be nice if some other designs pop up in here, we'll have to see. I need to research the differences in clipping. I noticed most here do one large clip. I've seen a couple with a tri-clip. C5 is the only one is the bi. I understand that it aids in suppression but I am worried about keeping them aligned and POI left and right.

Are you planning on coating the baffles? What are the advantages?

[Capt. Link.]

Number one is "hollywood quiet" for blackout and 22lr, but it would be nice if I could get the edge taken off of the 5.56 and a .308.

Contrary to popular belief K baffles will work very well on up to 20mm cannon but are heavier than cones built to handle equal pressure.
You think 8.00" is long.I remember when precision 30 caliber suppressors were 30.00" and a .22 can could have 20+ baffles.
Nickel prices alone is enough to avoid it.Using a small lathe w/ HSS tools 416 stainless is recommended.You can as a option harden it.
I would use a mixture of cones and K type baffles and accept the suppression for super sonic loads.
PM sent.
-CL

[Skorch]

Thank you very much for the reply, I was hoping to get one of Silencertalk's main contributors to comment. Thank you very much propeline and Captain for the ideas. Yeah I thought a 8" titanium on the end of a 20" barrel with a bipod felt a bit heavy. I cannot even imagine a 30" or even making that many baffles. I'm going to have to look up a picture of that now.

Good to know both cones and K baffles work for all the applications. Sounds like comparing efficiency of both might be splitting hairs. So as far as internals go, research clipping, and how to make proper K baffles both one or two piece. I seen some "out of the ordinary" K baffles on the threads as some of the experts were stating. I need to find what the standard ones are, and hope I can make them. I believe I've got some pretty solid advice on this part. Just need to learn how to make them.

I was wondering on the price of Nickle. Some of the forms were pretty pricey, I just didn't know if that was the only reason.

Captain, do you recommend what propeline stated as well. To make one can for the blackout (I'm guessing the 8" tube I already have), be happy with whatever results I get for 5.56, and make a dedicated one for 22lr?

Can anyone comment on on why people are baffle coating?

[Capt. Link.]

Captain, do you recommend what propeline stated as well. To make one can for the blackout (I'm guessing the 8" tube I already have), be happy with whatever results I get for 5.56, and make a dedicated one for 22lr?

Can anyone comment on on why people are baffle coating?

I think Propeine's idea is hot but may not be Hollywood quiet with the tube you have.A tube filled with cones followed by K type baffles will offer maximum suppression without going to a larger tube.Using a coating on aluminum is important and a option with titanium and other metals.Other than that I'm not familiar with any real advantage.

PS: Suppressors of the M-30 type were made years ago and still are very effective today.The accuracy and suppression was excellent for these precision rifles.My integral rifles are loosely based upon these type of suppressors but made with much lighter materials and different baffles.This is probably the M-89 on a AI rifle a product improvement by far.

[Pillar]

This is the first time I've heard of Cones & K's being used in the same can

[Skorch]

Captain and Dr. K have referenced it in a couple threads that I have found. I intend to attempt this as I think it sounds like a great idea.

For some reason, what I can't find is the typical standard for k baffles so I know what to compare to. I see everyone's twist/modification to them, but I don't know the actual specs for the main manufactures. I want to learn and compare the differences.

[sickasssig]

Ive seen a build on here from i believe it was from curtis tactical and im thinking he used 3 k baffles and 3 cones for supers and subs it was a neat looking build if anything i dont believe he posted a video but look around a little on here i think the post is still around maybe in the silencer smithing section good luck on your builds and keep us posted on your work thanks

[Skorch]

This is great information, and I'm currently gathering as much as possible to give to a co-worker to draw up for me. I'm not a machinist and I have never drawn up cad (that is how this originally started to be freeze plugs). Hopefully I'll learn fast, and be able to build something nice.

I no objections to the cone/k baffle design, and I am planning on going this route. What I've noticed is that nobody is commenting on the other can.

I have a Titanium 1.5"x 1.375" 8" long tube right now, but I was thinking of submitting another form 1 which can be anything at this point. It seems from the advice I'm getting is use the tube I have for the blackout, 5.56, and .308. Does this mean a dedicated 22lr can would be more desirable or does this mean for my simplistic use just keep to the one can, wait, and see what I learn for any in the future?

[Skorch]

I would like to post question. If this is a really bad idea please don't be too hard. I'm just tossing around an idea that I haven't heard anyone else bring, and no I don't know fluid dynamics. Some people here are making cones with a tri-cut cone out of fear that one clip would effect accuracy or create a point of impact shift. could this same idea be applied to a K baffle? Wouldn't it create a lot of cross turbulence?

I cannot draw so bear with me. I'm thinking of a k baffle with a coned face. The cone would have three small clips 120 degrees apart. there would be mouse holes underneath each clip at the neck.

Any ideas?

[Skorch]

Can anyone comment on this idea? I've seen people try tri-cutting cones to mitigate POI. What about K baffles? The dimensions aren't right for my tube, but I wanted to get opinions overall.

[T-Rex]

I believe this idea was discussed, not too long ago.

The consensus was that 3 jets of gas, crossing simultaneously, will adversely affect what the porting is trying to accomplish.
Your effort is best spent in the design and placement of a single port.

[Skorch]

Do you recall where this was? Has it been tested at all? I can see it possibly doing that, but just wonder if it was ever tested.

[propeine]

I believe this idea was discussed, not too long ago.

The consensus was that 3 jets of gas, crossing simultaneously, will adversely affect what the porting is trying to accomplish.
Your effort is best spent in the design and placement of a single port.

You could possibly stagger the depth of the muzzle side mill and alleviate some of that. Of course then it isn't symmetrical any more.

[Skorch]

I thought I would just toss the idea out there of a tri-cut K baffle. If the discussion has already been done good, just wish I could reference it.

I feel like I'm back to the complete basic questions about baffles. The more I research, the more variations I find, which creates hesitation on my part.

Captain had very good sound advice on using cones and K baffles. K baffles were making my head spin with all the different types. I found some designs I was going to draw up, but then I got advice that manufactures that used to use K baffles use cones now and report better results.

I don't want to just take the easy route, but if cones perform better and are easier to machine then why not use them? Anyone else care to chime in?

I just got my 17-4 stainless in the other day. I'm debating on whether to do that all the way through with titanium tubing for spacers, or do titanium for the last couple baffles.

Just keep going back and forth on the baffle designs. I just recently noticed radial cones now as well. Anyone have any input on 60deg cone, radial cone, stepped cone, and K baffles?

[fastfire]

I thought I would just toss the idea out there of a tri-cut K baffle. If the discussion has already been done good, just wish I could reference it.

I feel like I'm back to the complete basic questions about baffles. The more I research, the more variations I find, which creates hesitation on my part.

Captain had very good sound advice on using cones and K baffles. K baffles were making my head spin with all the different types. I found some designs I was going to draw up, but then I got advice that manufactures that used to use K baffles use cones now and report better results.

I don't want to just take the easy route, but if cones perform better and are easier to machine then why not use them? Anyone else care to chime in?

I just got my 17-4 stainless in the other day. I'm debating on whether to do that all the way through with titanium tubing for spacers, or do titanium for the last couple baffles.



Just keep going back and forth on the baffle designs. I just recently noticed radial cones now as well. Anyone have any input on 60deg cone, radial cone, stepped cone, and K baffles?

Most commercial rifle cans nowadays use some version of cones, and they are tried and tested. That should make the answer easy.

[Skorch]

Can someone critique this k baffle to tell me how far off I am? This is based off a lots of other posts, but I don't know if I got the hold in the skirt hole quite right.