Difference in sound for different material?

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CMV
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Difference in sound for different material?

Post by CMV » Fri Jun 03, 2016 7:01 pm

A buddy just Efiled for a .22 suppressor. He wants me to help him make an exact copy of my all Ti can, but he doesn't want to spend that much on raw material so he asked me what would be the drawbacks from making it out of 100% AL. I told him the same durability wouldn't be there - he'd need to be a little more careful about banging it around and 'encouraging' filthy baffles to come out.

What I couldn't answer is "Will it sound the same?". Mine is very good and he wants that same performance. So all things being equal (exact copy - well as close to exact as we end up with) one is made from all Ti & one is made from all 7075 will there be any noticeable difference in sound? Same ammo & same hosts even.
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Re: Difference in sound for different material?

Post by RPM509 » Fri Jun 03, 2016 8:45 pm

I suspect that the aluminum, (assumptions here) being thicker would have a lower frequency sound attenuation if you use
60xx or 70xx Aluminum and appropriate thicknesses for a sound suppressor.

Titanium I imagine would have a higher, less pleasing tune to it, but the trade off in strength and durability is worth it and probably not
noticeable to the average human ear.
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Re: Difference in sound for different material?

Post by cdrissel » Fri Jun 03, 2016 9:49 pm

Another question would be the effects of different coatings or finishes.

Anodized (Ti and Al) vs say Cerakote

What about using a cover?

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Re: Difference in sound for different material?

Post by Fulmen » Sat Jun 04, 2016 3:59 am

It's well known that steel cans produce more of a "ping" sound. Not sure about Ti, but I expect it to do the same (at least more so than aluminium). As for coatings I doubt you'll be able to notice any difference, but a cover would probably reduce such effects.

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Re: Difference in sound for different material?

Post by curtistactical » Sat Jun 04, 2016 8:11 am

It depends on how tight you make everything inside the suppressor. If there is zero room for movement and everything is locked together tight there will be no difference in sound. If there is any room for parts to move then it is possible to get a funny sound from the suppressor. In your case on a 22 I really doubt there will be any difference. As pressure rises on lrger calibers you can possibly start noticing a difference. When I am working up a new design I use aluminum to save machine time and material cost, the one time noticed there being a difference was when I was working up the shielded k baffles. I made the cover portion that went from the back face at the skirt to the back side of the taper .015" thick, with the aluminum it didn't make any funny sounds, but when I done the first one out of stainless I would get a noticeable ping inside the can.
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Re: Difference in sound for different material?

Post by Fulmen » Sat Jun 04, 2016 3:50 pm

curtistactical wrote:If there is zero room for movement and everything is locked together tight there will be no difference in sound.
Are you sure? I must admit I haven't tested it thoroughly as I've mostly made/used aluminium cans for subsonic. But if you tap a steel can they tend to produce more of a sharp "ping" compared to alu.

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Re: Difference in sound for different material?

Post by CMV » Sat Jun 04, 2016 8:09 pm

Cool. Will be an interesting experiment then comparing the two once his is finished. The intent is duplicate my can as closely as possible dimensionally so for my skill level that probably means ± .005 for most lengths and all diameters the same.

Mine is gr 9 tube, gr 5 everything else. His will be 2024 tube, 7075 everything else. His will get external Cerakote, mine is just straw colored anodize but I doubt that will make any difference at all other than cosmetics.

All I do is plink around with mine on a 22/45. It never really gets all that hot (relative to my rifle cans). How hot will a 1" dia, 8" length rimfire get from say a 25-rd mag or two from a .22 AR? Say about 60 RPM rate of fire. Just wondering if I can use H series Cerakote (400°F rating) instead of C series (1700°F rating). I'd like the durability of the H series, but don't want to have to blast it & redo it if it's going to be real easy to exceed 400°F.
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Re: Difference in sound for different material?

Post by curtistactical » Sat Jun 04, 2016 10:31 pm

Fulmen wrote:
curtistactical wrote:If there is zero room for movement and everything is locked together tight there will be no difference in sound.
Are you sure? I must admit I haven't tested it thoroughly as I've mostly made/used aluminium cans for subsonic. But if you tap a steel can they tend to produce more of a sharp "ping" compared to alu.
You are right if you tap on them they sound way different. This is just what I have noticed during testing, nothing scientific or anything just what I have experienced. When I build baffles out of aluminum for testing and settle on a design then make them out of stainless I can't tell any difference. I suppose the design of the suppressor has a lot to do with it, everything I build has fully shielded baffles that block all the gas from the tube so in a different design it might be different.
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Re: Difference in sound for different material?

Post by LavaRed » Sun Jun 05, 2016 8:15 am

I explored this one years ago, and the material choice does make a difference, if only a minor one.
Like everything in this universe, a suppressor vibrates, no matter how tight it is. And different materials do vibrate at different frequencies. The tube material is especially important, far more so than the baffles.

If I recall correctly, steel sounds the worst, followed by Ti and Al. My best results were with a carbon fiber outer tube. Yes, one can build one that lasts, at least for .22LR. My Ti monocore, CF tube specimen has well over 25k rounds through it and almost 6 years of abuse or so, and is still going strong. Polymer tubes also tend to yield more pleasing tones, but are not as lasting. At least not for PVC.

Hope this helps!
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Re: Difference in sound for different material?

Post by Fulmen » Sun Jun 05, 2016 6:29 pm

LavaRed wrote:If I recall correctly, steel sounds the worst, followed by Ti and Al
Sounds quite right, based on the general properties of those materials. All constructions can be viewed as a bell, give it a good whack and it will ring. A steel bell will ring louder and for longer than one made from aluminum. For supersonic I doubt it makes much of a difference, and even for subsonic I'm unsure if it is noticeable at a distance. But at least from the shooters position it can be quite noticeable.

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Re: Difference in sound for different material?

Post by RPM509 » Mon Jun 06, 2016 2:42 pm

This post got me thinking, which got me Googling. Found this page that does an admirable job of explaining sound attenuation in a
variety of materials including gases, liquids and solids.

http://www.kayelaby.npl.co.uk/general_p ... 2_4_1.html
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Re: Difference in sound for different material?

Post by cal50 » Tue Jun 14, 2016 7:28 pm

Different material should have different harmonics everything being equal.
Identical designs should meter the same peak sound pressure but the harmonic sound should be different (IMHO).

Maybe its inaudible to humans and pisses off dogs and critters but I have fired similar designs in different materials and I am pretty sure if blindfolded I could tell them apart. This was a pistol can in 9mm, one stainless steel and the other aluminum using the same host.
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