can/should this be repaired and if so, how?

[vaeevictiss]

So...was doing a whole bunch of blasting yesterday and luckily found a problem before it became a shredded tax stamp. this is the .223 can i recently built and made a post about here. I noticed the weld on the cap that connects to the muzzle starting to come apart. I knew i should have just dealt with the ugly weld and not turned off that much but at least i caught it while its still in one piece...



thats actually carbon seeping out there.

So at this point, im not super concerned with the aesthetics of it if i have to end up with an ugly repair weld around it. It is functional and i was shooting with a bunch of guys yesterday and mine was quieter than all of theirs...but they got to razz me cause theirs aren't falling apart...ya ya. As for welding it but im not sure if it would be better to MIG or TIG it. Alternatively, another idea i had, was to turn a piece of tube down to press fit over that end that would go to that first little step you see. Then welding each end of that piece to basically reseal the whole thing and probably strengthen it in the process.

any help or ideas are appreciated.

PS: it is stainless if that changes anything.

[JC in SC]

My interpretation of the rules would be that at this point, any repair work would need to be performed by an 07/02 FFL, though I could certainly be mistaken. I think your approach to resolve (repair weld as best as possible, cover with a heat-shrunk tube and weld on both ends) sounds sufficient.

[T-Rex]

Regardless (not disregarding) of the legal gobbledygook, I'd turn that down to get most of the bad weld off. Fusion (tig) weld the joint, then sleeve and weld over. Nothing worse than a weld undermining itself.

[Bendersquint]

.....at this point, any repair work would need to be performed by an 07/02 FFL.

JC would be correct, reweld, welded sleeve over it etc.... only an 07/02 can repair a can.

[vaeevictiss]

ahh damn, i thought that was only to open it up, not just an external repair. Not a problem, i know a guy that has one...just not sure if hes got a welder there.

[fishman]

.....at this point, any repair work would need to be performed by an 07/02 FFL.

JC would be correct, reweld, welded sleeve over it etc.... only an 07/02 can repair a can.

I thought anyone could repair they're own can as long as they don't add parts. In this case, adding a sleeve would require a 07/02 but if he only needed to reweld it, isn't that legal?

[poolshark]

.....at this point, any repair work would need to be performed by an 07/02 FFL.

JC would be correct, reweld, welded sleeve over it etc.... only an 07/02 can repair a can.

I thought anyone could repair they're own can as long as they don't add parts. In this case, adding a sleeve would require a 07/02 but if he only needed to reweld it, isn't that legal?

I would think so, I know the general consensus amongst the forums is you can clip your baffles at any time if you dont like the sound. But that may also fall under modification and not repair and in this case it technically isn't broken yet, so maybe he can modify it aesthetically with a new weld as long as the old one remains?

[vaeevictiss]

.....at this point, any repair work would need to be performed by an 07/02 FFL.

JC would be correct, reweld, welded sleeve over it etc.... only an 07/02 can repair a can.

I thought anyone could repair they're own can as long as they don't add parts. In this case, adding a sleeve would require a 07/02 but if he only needed to reweld it, isn't that legal?

i guess id be worried about just rewelding it since that seam is weakened now. unless just doing a new weld on top, all the way around, would be safe.

[CFogler93]

As for welding it but im not sure if it would be better to MIG or TIG it.
PS: it is stainless if that changes anything.

I know most have given you a lot of feedback. In my experience, I would certainly TIG Stainless Steel. I know you are not looking too much at aesthetics, however, TIG almost always gives you better looking beads with the penetration that you need. Just my experience talking here.

[Bendersquint]

.....at this point, any repair work would need to be performed by an 07/02 FFL.

JC would be correct, reweld, welded sleeve over it etc.... only an 07/02 can repair a can.

I thought anyone could repair they're own can as long as they don't add parts. In this case, adding a sleeve would require a 07/02 but if he only needed to reweld it, isn't that legal?

You can remove material, only an 07/02 can add.

Welding is adding material and a manufacturing process....cans already complete, you can't manufacture it any more

[fishman]

You can remove material, only an 07/02 can add.

Welding is adding material and a manufacturing process....cans already complete, you can't manufacture it any more

I'm not trying to pick an argument, just playing devil's advocate, but couldn't OP just claim that his can was never finished yet and weld it some more? it clearly isnt done being welded, there's still holes in it

[Bendersquint]

You can remove material, only an 07/02 can add.

Welding is adding material and a manufacturing process....cans already complete, you can't manufacture it any more

I'm not trying to pick an argument, just playing devil's advocate, but couldn't OP just claim that his can was never finished yet and weld it some more? it clearly isnt done being welded, there's still holes in it

It has a problem due to use, that proves the can was finished. It is clearly a repair.

[Fulliautomatix]

You can remove material, only an 07/02 can add.

Welding is adding material and a manufacturing process....cans already complete, you can't manufacture it any more

I'm not trying to pick an argument, just playing devil's advocate, but couldn't OP just claim that his can was never finished yet and weld it some more? it clearly isnt done being welded, there's still holes in it

It has a problem due to use, that proves the can was finished. It is clearly a repair.

I eat raw cookie dough, does that mean the cookies are finished?

I rest my case.

[vaeevictiss]

yea the rules sure are stupid lol. where does the line get drawn? how come adding a suppressor heat cover doesnt break the law? or for that matter how is a heat cover not a "suppressor part"? you are adding material to the suppressor.

[300sniper]

I wouldn't think twice about parting it off, beveling each side being sure to remove every bit of carbon and TIGing it back together.

[T-Rex]

I wouldn't think twice about parting it off, beveling each side being sure to remove every bit of carbon and TIGing it back together.

I'm not familiar w/ the details, but I wouldn't bevel the parts. I always fit thin-wall tubing to a tight, square, buttweld.
Back purge and TIG away. Should be a competent weld.
I agree about removing the old crap first.

[300sniper]

I wouldn't think twice about parting it off, beveling each side being sure to remove every bit of carbon and TIGing it back together.

I'm not familiar w/ the details, but I wouldn't bevel the parts. I always fit thin-wall tubing to a tight, square, buttweld.
Back purge and TIG away. Should be a competent weld.
I agree about removing the old crap first.

After it's been cut apart and with questionable weld existing, I think I'd use filler.

[T-Rex]

I think I'd use filler.

If you're going to sleeve over, I'm not sure I'd use a filler. Just because you'd have to turn it down again. The outer sleeve, w/ filler, would make it a superior joint.

What type of SS is this?

[vaeevictiss]

316SS. the endcaps however are 416

[T-Rex]

Ahh. Did you preheat the 416? What type of filler did you use? Did you perform any post-weld treatment, ie. stress-relieving, etc?

[vaeevictiss]

Ahh. Did you preheat the 416? What type of filler did you use? Did you perform any post-weld treatment, ie. stress-relieving, etc?

It was not preheated and was originally migged with just a standard ss wire, now sure the grade. no post weld treatment either...Im not even sure what that would be haha. I didnt do any pre heat or post treatment on my 308 can and that is still running great. It was tigged tho.

[T-Rex]

Pre-heating the 416 keeps needed heat input (to weld) lower and reduces sulphur dilution. The sulphur is added to improve machinability, however, sulphur is an impurity and causes brittleness. Especially in the high % found in 416 (can be 11x that of 316). Your filler metal is also key. I'd choose 308 or 309L, depending on my post-weld treatment.

[300sniper]

I think I'd use filler.

If you're going to sleeve over, I'm not sure I'd use a filler. Just because you'd have to turn it down again. The outer sleeve, w/ filler, would make it a superior joint.

What type of SS is this?

Sleeving over, I'd agree.

[pdsmith505]

I thought anyone could repair they're own can as long as they don't add parts. In this case, adding a sleeve would require a 07/02 but if he only needed to reweld it, isn't that legal?

You can remove material, only an 07/02 can add.

Welding is adding material and a manufacturing process....cans already complete, you can't manufacture it any more

Wait a second here... I'm not aware of any ATF opinion that states that only an 07/02 can repair a can. There certainly are opinions out there that only a 07/02 can replace parts to repair a can because the parts themselves are silencers, but this is not replacing parts.

Unless you are implying that the filler rod becomes a silencer the instant you use it to repair the can.

Taken to the extreme... does that mean that, once a can is complete, only an 07/02 can paint a can? Paint adds material and is a manufacturing process... does the paint then become a silencer in and of itself?

By re-welding the can, he would not be creating any new parts nor changing either of the critical dimensions (length, caliber). If disassembling and reassembling the can constitutes a taxable event, then how would one be able to remove a threaded end cap and re-install it?

[doubloon]

...
Wait a second here... I'm not aware of any ATF opinion that states that only an 07/02 can repair a can. ...

http://www.titleii.com/bardwell/atf_letter66.txt

Code: Select all

                      DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY
                BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO AND FIREARMS
                         WASHINGTON, DC 20226

                              AUG 23 1999

                                                           901040:GS
                                                           5320/99-0115

Dear Mr. Bardwell:

This is in response to your letter of June 28, 1999, regarding the
repair of a silencer by an individual owner.  You ask "whether it
is lawful for the owner of a lawfully possessed silencer ... to
repair that silencer himself, by replacing unserialized internal
components with new components of his own making."  You cited the
replacement of a worn out plastic "wipe" or damaged baffle as an
example.

As you are aware, the terms "firearm silencer" and "firearm
muffler" mean any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing
the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of
parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for use in assembling
or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, and any part
intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication.  Thus,
certain internal components, intended only for use in a silencer,
are silencers as defined.

If an individual made one of these parts, even for use as a
replacement part, the individual would be making a silencer.  Under
the provisions of the National Firearms Act, any person must apply
for and receive permission to make a silencer and pay the making
tax for each silencer made.  This would require the individual
owner to file an ATF Form 1 application for each silencer part to
be made with the payment of $200.00 for each application prior to
making any replacement part.

In regard to the two parts in your cited example, we consider a
baffle to be a silencer, but a wipe, which is usually nothing more
than a rubber or plastic disc with a hole in it, is generally not
considered to be a silencer.  Thus an individual owner could
replace a wipe.

                                 - 2 -

Mr. Bardwell

For the replacement of a part or parts that meet the definition of
a silencer, the individual owner would need to arrange for the
transfer of the silencer to a Federal firearms licensee who is
qualified to manufacture silencers.

If you have questions about the classification of other silencer
components, please provide us with a description of them or should
any additional information be needed, please contact Gary Schiable
at (202) 927-8330.


                           Sincerely yours,

                               [signed]
                            Kent M. Cousins
                  Chief, National Firearms Act Branch