Leidenfrost Effect for Next Generation Baffle Surfaces?

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Historian
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Leidenfrost Effect for Next Generation Baffle Surfaces?

Post by Historian » Tue Nov 08, 2016 11:27 am

<< https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzKgnNG ... e=youtu.be >>

Intuition precedes experiments precedes new unexpected effects.

Another example of 'fluid logic'.

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Re: Leidenfrost Effect for Next Generation Baffle Surfaces?

Post by magilla » Tue Nov 08, 2016 12:06 pm

wow that's deep

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Re: Leidenfrost Effect for Next Generation Baffle Surfaces?

Post by Hasdrubal » Thu Nov 10, 2016 1:46 am

That's a fascinating video, but the effect comes from the phase change at the interface between the liquid and the hot surface. Won't do anything where there's nothing but gas working. Also, anything that comes from very small shapes affecting the gas flow could get clogged pretty quickly with carbon. I think this is why there haven't been any production aircraft with boundary layer suction (look up the F-16XL), the holes get clogged up and stop working. On rifle pressure silencers there might be enough flow to keep similar holes clear, but a micro grooved surface might not fare as well.

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Re: Leidenfrost Effect for Next Generation Baffle Surfaces?

Post by BlogSarge » Thu Nov 10, 2016 2:10 am

Now that is a cool video and a cool phenomenon.

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Re: Leidenfrost Effect for Next Generation Baffle Surfaces?

Post by T-Rex » Thu Nov 10, 2016 8:39 am

BlogSarge wrote:Now that is a cool video and a cool phenomenon.
That's how I know my pan is hot enough to add oil then my eggs :wink:
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Re: Leidenfrost Effect for Next Generation Baffle Surfaces?

Post by Historian » Thu Nov 10, 2016 4:04 pm

Hasdrubal wrote:That's a fascinating video, but the effect comes from the phase change at the interface between the liquid and the hot surface. Won't do anything where there's nothing but gas working. Also, anything that comes from very small shapes affecting the gas flow could get clogged pretty quickly with carbon. I think this is why there haven't been any production aircraft with boundary layer suction (look up the F-16XL), the holes get clogged up and stop working. On rifle pressure silencers there might be enough flow to keep similar holes clear, but a micro grooved surface might not fare as well.
Excellent analysis and clear presentation!

In fluid logic gates of the 1960's cross interactions resulting
from two non similarly interacting shapes produced major
interferences.

For example the phenomenal Bang Olufsen holes in their speakers metal
covers are not just stamped straight down ... the are machined
with varying penetration angles radiating varying from the center.

Baffle/suppressor designs are an art. Improvement could come from
cross-over information of other designs.


Best.

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Re: Leidenfrost Effect for Next Generation Baffle Surfaces?

Post by Zombie1969 » Thu Nov 10, 2016 8:14 pm

What they really need to figure out is why when I'm not paying attention my pee goes in two opposite directions none of which lands in the toilet.

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Re: Leidenfrost Effect for Next Generation Baffle Surfaces?

Post by DustyJacket » Thu Nov 10, 2016 9:36 pm

hahahaha

I feel your pain
Shoot softly, and carry a big clip.

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Re: Leidenfrost Effect for Next Generation Baffle Surfaces?

Post by BlogSarge » Fri Nov 11, 2016 12:06 am

T-Rex wrote:
BlogSarge wrote:Now that is a cool video and a cool phenomenon.
That's how I know my pan is hot enough to add oil then my eggs :wink:
Well damn, no wonder my eggs stick...

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Re: Leidenfrost Effect for Next Generation Baffle Surfaces?

Post by Fulmen » Fri Nov 11, 2016 5:52 am

While the physics is fascinating I fail to see how it can be applied to silencers. But as always I'd love to see someone prove me wrong.

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Re: Leidenfrost Effect for Next Generation Baffle Surfaces?

Post by Hasdrubal » Fri Nov 11, 2016 7:10 am

If there's going to be a leap in silencer performance, it's probably going to come from a combination of improved CFD (computational fluid dynamics) programs and metal 3d printers. I couldn't begin to guess what the baffle shapes would be, but my feeling is that with more simple shapes like the cones and Ks, the industry has reached the point of diminishing returns. The new Ruger unit might give some hints, but that's still a part shaped so it can be cast with conventional equipment.

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Re: Leidenfrost Effect for Next Generation Baffle Surfaces?

Post by Fulmen » Fri Nov 11, 2016 10:04 am

Honestly it's hard to imagine anything that would revolutionize silencer designs. While there are many distinct challenges involved the general physics is well known. The heat and fouling involved also limits both usable materials and the design.

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Re: Leidenfrost Effect for Next Generation Baffle Surfaces?

Post by Fulliautomatix » Fri Nov 11, 2016 10:16 am

Fulmen wrote:Honestly it's hard to imagine anything that would revolutionize silencer designs. While there are many distinct challenges involved the general physics is well known. The heat and fouling involved also limits both usable materials and the design.
Yeah, it's all about volume. Projectile noise can be controlled by velocity, but as long as we're using burning chemicals for propulsion the current designs seem to be at their limits until Tardis-technology becomes a reality, lol, that and palm sized rail guns.
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Re: Leidenfrost Effect for Next Generation Baffle Surfaces?

Post by Historian » Fri Nov 11, 2016 11:37 am

Fulliautomatix wrote:
Fulmen wrote:Honestly it's hard to imagine anything that would revolutionize silencer designs. While there are many distinct challenges involved the general physics is well known. The heat and fouling involved also limits both usable materials and the design.
Yeah, it's all about volume. Projectile noise can be controlled by velocity, but as long as we're using burning chemicals for propulsion the current designs seem to be at their limits until Tardis-technology becomes a reality, lol, that and palm sized rail guns.
+1

Once had a talk with Major Dick Culver USMC ( Happy Birthday, Corps ) on suppressors
which he had more than a passing knowledge of. One thought was that the simplest
.22 suppressor would be a can 1.75" x 8" filled with just flat, space, washers.
This primitive design was inspired by the dimensions of an OCONUS .45 ACP
can that was field tested.

RIP dear friend.

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Re: Leidenfrost Effect for Next Generation Baffle Surfaces?

Post by Historian » Fri Nov 11, 2016 11:41 am

Speaking of .45 cans, has there been one with K-baffles?

Wonder how Dick's notional 1.75" x 8" can with K-baffles
would meter.

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Re: Leidenfrost Effect for Next Generation Baffle Surfaces?

Post by fishman » Fri Nov 11, 2016 11:47 am

Historian wrote:Speaking of .45 cans, has there been one with K-baffles?

Wonder how Dick's notional 1.75" x 8" can with K-baffles
would meter.
Aac tirant, which I believe has great numbers
300 blackout form 1: http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=137293

5.56 form 1:
http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=141800&p=955647#p955647

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Re: Leidenfrost Effect for Next Generation Baffle Surfaces?

Post by T-Rex » Fri Nov 11, 2016 12:31 pm

The DeadAir Ghost is a 45 can using K-Baffles.
Those K's are interesting as their facial wall goes in a different direction than other current designs.
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Re: Leidenfrost Effect for Next Generation Baffle Surfaces?

Post by Hard_ware » Sun Nov 13, 2016 2:35 am

Fulliautomatix wrote:
Fulmen wrote:Honestly it's hard to imagine anything that would revolutionize silencer designs. While there are many distinct challenges involved the general physics is well known. The heat and fouling involved also limits both usable materials and the design.
Yeah, it's all about volume. Projectile noise can be controlled by velocity, but as long as we're using burning chemicals for propulsion the current designs seem to be at their limits until Tardis-technology becomes a reality, lol, that and palm sized rail guns.
Surface area is possible using zeolite structure* , but heat and fouling won't work with technology at hand.
*1 gram of zeolite contains on average 500 square meters surface area. Maybe the future holds carbon nano tube design, suppressors grown in the lab :shock:


Zombie1969 wrote:What they really need to figure out is why when I'm not paying attention my pee goes in two opposite directions none of which lands in the toilet.
Sounds like worn out rifling :lol:
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Re: Leidenfrost Effect for Next Generation Baffle Surfaces?

Post by Historian » Sun Nov 13, 2016 9:24 am

Zombie1969 wrote:What they really need to figure out is why when I'm not paying attention my pee goes in two opposite directions none of which lands in the toilet.
Reminiscent of 1940's story of a native American's visit to a psychiatrist's office
complaining of debilitating disorientation:

"Some times I feel like a teepee, other times I feel like a wigwam.
Doctor, I am in panic."

Psychiatrist smiled and assured him that there was nothing to be worried about:
"It is perfectly normal. You need to learn how to relax.
You are simply TWO TENTS."

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Re: Leidenfrost Effect for Next Generation Baffle Surfaces?

Post by fastfire » Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:11 am

Hard_ware wrote:
Fulliautomatix wrote:
Fulmen wrote:Honestly it's hard to imagine anything that would revolutionize silencer designs. While there are many distinct challenges involved the general physics is well known. The heat and fouling involved also limits both usable materials and the design.
Yeah, it's all about volume. Projectile noise can be controlled by velocity, but as long as we're using burning chemicals for propulsion the current designs seem to be at their limits until Tardis-technology becomes a reality, lol, that and palm sized rail guns.
Surface area is possible using zeolite structure* , but heat and fouling won't work with technology at hand.
*1 gram of zeolite contains on average 500 square meters surface area. Maybe the future holds carbon nano tube design, suppressors grown in the lab :shock:


Zombie1969 wrote:What they really need to figure out is why when I'm not paying attention my pee goes in two opposite directions none of which lands in the toilet.
Sounds like worn out rifling :lol:

Need a re-crowned. ouch!

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Re: Leidenfrost Effect for Next Generation Baffle Surfaces?

Post by whiterussian1974 » Wed Nov 16, 2016 1:09 pm

If the gases were magnetized, then we could use the Tube to draw the gases off boreline and trap them longer.

Any way to add Iron-oxide to double-base smokeless powder?
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