Second suppressor project: 45-70 handi rifle

Yes, it can be legal to make a silencer. For everything Form-1, from silencer designs that are easily made, to filing forms with the BATF, to 3D modeling. Remember, you must have an approved BATF Form-1 to make a silencer. All NFA laws apply.

Moderators: mpallett, bakerjw

Post Reply
wquiles
Member
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon May 13, 2013 10:51 am

Second suppressor project: 45-70 handi rifle

Post by wquiles »

Now that I finished my F1 .22 cal suppressor, I want to move to the next one of my stamps, the 45 cal, which I intend to use on my 45-70 H&R handi rifle. I would like to do a reflex design, something like this (which I found here in the forum):
Image


I started by cutting down the barrel from 22" to about 17 3/4", and threaded it between centers to .578-28 threads. Since the barrel has the hinge mechanism, and since the through bore in my lathe is only 1-5/8", I had to do it in between centers. I used two 1/4" titanium bars through the chuck's jaws to prevent the barrel from rotating, but of course I still limited RPM's to about 220 since the weight is not centered.:
Image


On the chuck side, I used a moded 45-70 case, and fitted Al adapter to hold the breach centered with the chuck:
Image

Image


The barrel hole was not concentric with the outer wall by the way - not by much, but you can easily tell on the lathe when I was turning down the area to thread. But since I am threading concentric to the actual bore, the suppressor will be concentric to the bore:
Image

Image


I used data I found here in the forum, plus a nifty drawing from a suppressor manufacturer:
Image


Threads came out good:
Image



100% cast lead bullets (I cast my own), so I want the suppressor serviceable. My usage goal is 95% subsonic loads, and perhaps a few slightly more powerful, but still very low power compared to modern 45-70 loads - think well below trapdoor loads, as absolute maximum. My current plan for a "heavy" load will be a 420gr cast lead at about 1050fps or so, while the fun load will be a collar button bullet in the 200gr range, also subsonic.

So now that I have the barrel ready (still need to touch-up & polish the crown a little), any ideas on the reflex design? I figured I ask before I start buying raw material/parts :)

Will
User avatar
Capt. Link.
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 2829
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 9:05 pm
Location: USA.

Re: Second suppressor project: 45-70 handi rifle

Post by Capt. Link. »

Reflex designs don't help that much with suppression over conventional ones.A ported integral will provide much more suppression and are ideal for these break action type hosts.You can keep the OAL very short and "handi" this way.A large bore is much more difficult to suppress than a .22 and a careful design is a must.I prefer using two stamps for integral suppressors but a simple monocore can be effective w/ wise use of the volume possible.Check RCBS for their .458 gas check 300gr Keith design mould the recoil is much lighter than heavier projectiles plus a flatter trajectory.
-CL
The only reason after 243 years the government now wants to disarm you is they intend to do something you would shoot them for!
http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=79895
MMH
Senior Silent Operator
Posts: 135
Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2009 3:40 pm

Re: Second suppressor project: 45-70 handi rifle

Post by MMH »

Capt. Link. wrote:...I prefer using two stamps for integral suppressors...
-CL
Why? SBR & Suppressor? If the integral suppressor is permanently attached than is a SBR stamp necessary, or, do you not want the suppressor permanently attached for servicibility?
Historian
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 3503
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2010 10:37 pm

Re: Second suppressor project: 45-70 handi rifle

Post by Historian »

Your " ..On the chuck side, I used a moded 45-70 case,
and fitted Al adapter to hold the breach centered with the chuck:...
"
was brilliant!

I have used a Go-No_Go SS .45 gauge which I drilled out/centered.

Yours solution is elegant and 'stealable' . :)

Thank you for showing.
wquiles
Member
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon May 13, 2013 10:51 am

Re: Second suppressor project: 45-70 handi rifle

Post by wquiles »

Capt. Link. wrote:Reflex designs don't help that much with suppression over conventional ones.A ported integral will provide much more suppression and are ideal for these break action type hosts.You can keep the OAL very short and "handi" this way.A large bore is much more difficult to suppress than a .22 and a careful design is a must.I prefer using two stamps for integral suppressors but a simple monocore can be effective w/ wise use of the volume possible.Check RCBS for their .458 gas check 300gr Keith design mould the recoil is much lighter than heavier projectiles plus a flatter trajectory.
-CL
Thank you. I have been looking at photos of monocore designs + reflex as a first pass of the design. Specifically I am intrigged about a few designs from this maker in New Zealand:
http://sub-silentsuppressors.com/?page_id=24428

http://sub-silentsuppressors.com/?page_id=12393

Would something similar to that work well for my project?


Historian wrote:Your " ..On the chuck side, I used a moded 45-70 case,
and fitted Al adapter to hold the breach centered with the chuck:...
"
was brilliant!

I have used a Go-No_Go SS .45 gauge which I drilled out/centered.

Yours solution is elegant and 'stealable' . :)

Thank you for showing.
I am just an amateur machinist with much, much more to learn, so thank you for your kind words :oops:
Hasdrubal
Member
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 6:50 pm

Re: Second suppressor project: 45-70 handi rifle

Post by Hasdrubal »

Check this one out, I made a shameless copy for a 10/22 charger and about all I can hear is the bolt clacking and the strike on the target.

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=112842&p=855602&hi ... re#p855602
a_canadian
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 1204
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 3:09 pm

Re: Second suppressor project: 45-70 handi rifle

Post by a_canadian »

A couple of things about the NZ guy's suppressors bug me a lot. The set screws being used to retain plugs/caps is very limitedly useful, especially with carbon tubes, as tear-out becomes inevitable except with the lowest power rounds. And his monocores are absolutely massively overbuilt. An odd combination: inherently weak cap fixing with the grub screws with so much metal left in the cores that suppression is seriously reduced compared to designs with greater air volume. It's like he's not even thinking.

For a much better design have a look at this core with reflex tube for a .17HMR by Nutshot, probably the UK's most respected custom suppressor maker.

viewtopic.php?t=108967
wquiles
Member
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon May 13, 2013 10:51 am

Re: Second suppressor project: 45-70 handi rifle

Post by wquiles »

Hasdrubal wrote:Check this one out, I made a shameless copy for a 10/22 charger and about all I can hear is the bolt clacking and the strike on the target.

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=112842&p=855602&hi ... re#p855602
Cool - thanks. I like the simple approach of that design. Relatively straight forward on a lathe and mill.


a_canadian wrote:A couple of things about the NZ guy's suppressors bug me a lot. The set screws being used to retain plugs/caps is very limitedly useful, especially with carbon tubes, as tear-out becomes inevitable except with the lowest power rounds. And his monocores are absolutely massively overbuilt. An odd combination: inherently weak cap fixing with the grub screws with so much metal left in the cores that suppression is seriously reduced compared to designs with greater air volume. It's like he's not even thinking.
Yes, that part worries me as well - looks like a weak point on the set screws, but that was my whole reason to post here - to get exactly this type of feedback. Thanks!

a_canadian wrote:For a much better design have a look at this core with reflex tube for a .17HMR by Nutshot, probably the UK's most respected custom suppressor maker.
viewtopic.php?t=108967
Now that looks pretty awesome. I have to study it some more, as I don't know if I am up to the task machining-wise.

Thanks :D
User avatar
Capt. Link.
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 2829
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 9:05 pm
Location: USA.

Re: Second suppressor project: 45-70 handi rifle

Post by Capt. Link. »

MMH wrote:
Capt. Link. wrote:...I prefer using two stamps for integral suppressors...
-CL
Why? SBR & Suppressor? If the integral suppressor is permanently attached than is a SBR stamp necessary, or, do you not want the suppressor permanently attached for servicibility?
A two stamp lets you service 100% of the system and allows for better choices in baffles.The whole rifle is often more accurate when built as a integral plus the ported design helps quiet the large bore with a smaller thinner tube!
The 45-70 is a ton of fun looking forward to what you come up with.If you wish some advice on building a ported integral drop me a line and I'd be please to be of service.
-CL
The only reason after 243 years the government now wants to disarm you is they intend to do something you would shoot them for!
http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=79895
wquiles
Member
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon May 13, 2013 10:51 am

Re: Second suppressor project: 45-70 handi rifle

Post by wquiles »

Capt. Link. wrote:The 45-70 is a ton of fun looking forward to what you come up with.If you wish some advice on building a ported integral drop me a line and I'd be please to be of service.
-CL
Thank you. Just sent you a PM.

And yes, the 45-70 is indeed a lot of fun, specially the lower power rounds I cast and handload (I even have tried original Black Powder loads - got lot of interesting looks at the range when I did since folks are not use to seeing that smoke cloud!). I also have a real Marlin 45-70 rifle (before the Rem acquisition), but those are a "little" harder to suppress due to the front sight "being in the way" :)

Will
User avatar
Fulliautomatix
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 253
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2011 7:46 pm

Re: Second suppressor project: 45-70 handi rifle

Post by Fulliautomatix »

wquiles wrote: I also have a real Marlin 45-70 rifle (before the Rem acquisition), but those are a "little" harder to suppress due to the front sight "being in the way" :)

Will
I also have a real Marlin 1895 that I've suppressed. I had the barrel cut back & threaded, and a new dovetail for a new Skinner tall front sight blade.

http://www.skinnersights.com/1895_sight_4.html

Image
Speak softly, and carry a big stick.
wquiles
Member
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon May 13, 2013 10:51 am

Re: Second suppressor project: 45-70 handi rifle

Post by wquiles »

Fulliautomatix wrote:
wquiles wrote: I also have a real Marlin 45-70 rifle (before the Rem acquisition), but those are a "little" harder to suppress due to the front sight "being in the way" :)

Will
I also have a real Marlin 1895 that I've suppressed. I had the barrel cut back & threaded, and a new dovetail for a new Skinner tall front sight blade.

http://www.skinnersights.com/1895_sight_4.html
Wow, that looks great!

If you don't mind, you did the barrel removal & threading? Depending on how much I like the results on the Handi Rifle, I might consider this on my Marlin as well :D

Will
User avatar
Fulliautomatix
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 253
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2011 7:46 pm

Re: Second suppressor project: 45-70 handi rifle

Post by Fulliautomatix »

I'm not sure if you're asking me if I did it, or if you missed a word and asking how much it cost. I didn't do it myself, I took it to a local FFL 07/02, Dobbs Defense.
Barrel removal & threading was $150 from the local shop. If I had pulled the barrel they would have charged only $100. Now that I think about, they didn't cut a new dovetail, they just installed the tall sight in the existing dovetail while I had it there.
Speak softly, and carry a big stick.
wquiles
Member
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon May 13, 2013 10:51 am

Re: Second suppressor project: 45-70 handi rifle

Post by wquiles »

I would say that the cost was reasonable. Thanks much. Definitely something to consider for the next project :o
Post Reply