Feedback on .22 Mono-core design

Yes, it can be legal to make a silencer. For everything Form-1, from silencer designs that are easily made, to filing forms with the BATF, to 3D modeling. Remember, you must have an approved BATF Form-1 to make a silencer. All NFA laws apply.

Moderators: mpallett, bakerjw

ZunkerCustoms
New Member
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:58 pm
Location: Freedomlandville

Re: Feedback on .22 Mono-core design

Post by ZunkerCustoms » Wed Jan 18, 2017 3:47 pm

Nothing is cut yet, Im playing around with designs on my computer. I have 6 batches of forms for quite a few things turned in right now. Found a fire sale on AAC Cyclones for $300 each so I bought 3! Then some other build paperwork as well...

Yup, Ill have the Ti body, and main monocore interchangeable. Like Gemtech One, Ill just make some muzzle breaks that have typical outside threads that I can leave on the different small caliber rifles. Cut some protective rings for the exposed threads and call it good.
I dream, dream, dream, and forget to do, do, do :roll:

VitaminC
Member
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:22 pm

Re: Feedback on .22 Mono-core design

Post by VitaminC » Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:51 pm

a_canadian wrote:There are a few different theories on that. In my opinion something mid-sized but not of absolutely even spacing/size seems to be good for rimfire. Capt. Link. has thoughts on that, good ones. Breaking up standing waves, decompression-recompression sort of thing. But for the most part you want as little metal in there as is practical for a given application, so as much air volume, but arranged such as to efficiently redirect pressure flow.
One of my friends has a Dr. and a PH.D. in his name keeps telling me stuff about fluid dynamics and sound waves and other science stuff. But then my head starts to hurt...and I tend to loose focus.
I am a build it and see kind of guy.

VitaminC
Member
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:22 pm

Re: Feedback on .22 Mono-core design

Post by VitaminC » Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:56 pm

a_canadian wrote:That's rather beautiful. Two things I'd change, but just personal bias, not sure they're necessary. The little continuations of the baffles outside the core space are only stealing volume. Not a lot, but every bit counts. I'd shave all of those away, or perhaps leave just one in the middle, and have half as many vents, staggering them side to side in alternating walls. A smidge more room for expansion and less lower pressure flow back into the core.
Do you think that might caus pressure to bleed through into the other chambers?

VitaminC
Member
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:22 pm

Re: Feedback on .22 Mono-core design

Post by VitaminC » Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:02 pm

John A. wrote:I like the outer chambers in the last design vitiminC.

If you were to turn the OD down on a lathe between the outer wall baffles like you have shown, and then machine the monocore baffles on a mill, that would be sweet.

Especially if you ported the outer baffles at the face/corner of the M baffle where the most pressure is going to be just like you have it pictured, should work wonderfully.

Only change I think I would make is the expansion chamber and that's because of personal preference. Instead of a flat face baffle, I'd make a cone because they're good at "splitting the gas" away from the bullet, and I'd port it into the outer chamber of the 2nd baffle, but I wouldn't port the 2nd baffle itself to that outer baffle just so the gas from the expansion chamber couldn't interfere with bullet path.

Essentially, like this >=]>

Essentially making the 2nd outer baffle part of the expansion chamber only. If by chance it did have some FRP on short barrels where the powder hasn't had time for full burn, you could always wrap that outer baffle with copper chore boy to take up some of the volume and disrupting gas/pressure at the same time.

But on a 16 inch barrel, or even a 12 inch barrel for that matter, I doubt you'll notice any FRP at all.
I'm feeling you on all these suggestions. Check my design updates later tonight!

VitaminC
Member
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:22 pm

Re: Feedback on .22 Mono-core design

Post by VitaminC » Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:10 pm

ZunkerCustoms wrote:Im making that same thing :lol: Started looking up bore dimensions for my project and your post came up, first hit on the monocore .22 search engine!

Ive decided to make different monocore sizes for the different guns I have. Ill make 4 different bore sizes, thread them on my guns and leave them, then just change the internals and body.

I have the accessibility to CNC's but i think ill be using a wire EDM to pocket out my internals. If this one works well, Ill make another body and internals for the modular model. The one Im working on now will more than likely be left on my little Marlin Papoose .22.

Designed on Solidworks and G-coded on MX7. What are you using?
Cool hopefully we can crowdsource the information we need together.
I only have one chance to get the design the best it can be, that's why I'm here trying to get the most feedback possible.

I normally use solidworks, but for this project I am using Fusion 360. It's ok...for the price it is amazing. Solidworks is still way better in my opinion, but Fusion is good and has some awesome features that SW doesn't have...like the thread tool! For tool paths I will try and generate them in Fusion. It has a native CAM workspace, but I have no idea how to use it yet.

a_canadian
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 1178
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 4:09 pm

Re: Feedback on .22 Mono-core design

Post by a_canadian » Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:11 pm

VitaminC wrote: Do you think that might caus pressure to bleed through into the other chambers?
With any luck it should. Pressure which has gone around two corners, or through two holes, isn't likely to have a lot of oomph left in it. The more you can 'work' the flow the better.

VitaminC
Member
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:22 pm

Re: Feedback on .22 Mono-core design

Post by VitaminC » Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:35 pm

a_canadian wrote:
VitaminC wrote: Do you think that might caus pressure to bleed through into the other chambers?
With any luck it should. Pressure which has gone around two corners, or through two holes, isn't likely to have a lot of oomph left in it. The more you can 'work' the flow the better.
Ill try this out on a future iteration.

VitaminC
Member
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:22 pm

Re: Feedback on .22 Mono-core design

Post by VitaminC » Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:48 pm

Latest Design Update:

So I decided to eliminate the spacer in this version so I could enlarge the blast chamber.

I also uncapped the ends of the baffle stack...seemed like a good idea...

Made some small changes to the Exit end cap.

The chambers at the ends look huge, but please keep in mind that they are only about 1' long by .5" wide.

I feel like this is a pretty good design, any other iterations will be based heavily on this design direction.

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

ZunkerCustoms
New Member
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:58 pm
Location: Freedomlandville

Re: Feedback on .22 Mono-core design

Post by ZunkerCustoms » Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:18 pm

VitaminC wrote:
ZunkerCustoms wrote:Im making that same thing :lol: Started looking up bore dimensions for my project and your post came up, first hit on the monocore .22 search engine!

Ive decided to make different monocore sizes for the different guns I have. Ill make 4 different bore sizes, thread them on my guns and leave them, then just change the internals and body.

I have the accessibility to CNC's but i think ill be using a wire EDM to pocket out my internals. If this one works well, Ill make another body and internals for the modular model. The one Im working on now will more than likely be left on my little Marlin Papoose .22.

Designed on Solidworks and G-coded on MX7. What are you using?
Cool hopefully we can crowdsource the information we need together.
I only have one chance to get the design the best it can be, that's why I'm here trying to get the most feedback possible.

I normally use solidworks, but for this project I am using Fusion 360. It's ok...for the price it is amazing. Solidworks is still way better in my opinion, but Fusion is good and has some awesome features that SW doesn't have...like the thread tool! For tool paths I will try and generate them in Fusion. It has a native CAM workspace, but I have no idea how to use it yet.
Youre post made me join! lol I wanted to follow your thread to get ideas and its paid off! Why only one chance to get it right? Ive started so many different ideas on SW's and everytime I want to turn in my papers, I get hesitant and change my mind. I finally took some cash and just turned in a bunch of ideas so I can do a few different designs.

I havent heard of Fusion. I got an opportunity when I was in trade school to get MX7 for a heavily discounted Disabled Veteran price, and SW was given to me from the VA. I got lucky, but I broke my back in Baghdad for these VA benefits. Your design looks great and I hope you get rolling on production! Nice work!
I dream, dream, dream, and forget to do, do, do :roll:

User avatar
fishman
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 1444
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2015 9:15 pm

Re: Feedback on .22 Mono-core design

Post by fishman » Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:29 pm

ZunkerCustoms wrote:Why only one chance to get it right?
Disclaimer: KNOW ALL THE LAWS BEFORE BUILDING A SILENCER OR ANY SILENCER PART.

You only get to make 1 silencer for each Form 1 application you get approved. Most of us either cant afford to, or don't want to pay to, file several form 1s to play around with design. You can not make parts, test them, destroy them, and make better ones to replace them. You only get one shot to make it right. You cannot have spare parts for a silencer, so you can't make one silencer with two sets of baffles. It's a very very serious felony. Most of these rules don't apply to 07/02 sot ffl holders.
300 blackout form 1: http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=137293

5.56 form 1:
http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=141800&p=955647#p955647

User avatar
fishman
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 1444
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2015 9:15 pm

Re: Feedback on .22 Mono-core design

Post by fishman » Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:49 pm

VitaminC

your design is getting better, however, there's still more room for easy improvement. You could easily add 1-2 more baffles. your blast chamber doesnt need to be that big and your last chamber is quite large and mostly wasted space. if you designed the core to fit into the front endcap, you could possibly add a third baffle. If you want, you could turn down the OD of the tube between the threads to reduce weight and add aesthetics. you also might want to consider porting or clipping all, or some, of the baffles to introduce asymmetry and turbulence (this could be done after initial testing if you want even more performance out of it)
Last edited by fishman on Fri Jan 20, 2017 12:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
300 blackout form 1: http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=137293

5.56 form 1:
http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=141800&p=955647#p955647

User avatar
T-Rex
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 1864
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2014 4:38 pm
Location: CT - The AntiConstitution State

Re: Feedback on .22 Mono-core design

Post by T-Rex » Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:53 pm

I'm sure your design would have a positive outcome, but it is reminiscent of older designs.
Have you looked at commercial monocores? I think it would be easier to mimic their features, than to start from ground zero.

Silencerco Sparrow
Image


Liberty Regulator
Image


I give you credit on the design aspect. I run Inventor so I'm sympathetic to revisions and design changes. But, to shy away from the path others have paved does not always yield the best results.
Completed Builds www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=79895
Burst Calculator www.engineersedge.com/calculators/pipe_bust_calc.htm
Silencer Porn www.instagram.com/explore/tags/silencerporn/

VitaminC
Member
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:22 pm

Re: Feedback on .22 Mono-core design

Post by VitaminC » Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:27 pm

T-Rex wrote:I'm sure your design would have a positive outcome, but it is reminiscent of older designs.
Have you looked at commercial monocores? I think it would be easier to mimic their features, than to start from ground zero.

Silencerco Sparrow
Image


Liberty Regulator
Image


I give you credit on the design aspect. I run Inventor so I'm sympathetic to revisions and design changes. But, to shy away from the path others have paved does not always yield the best results.
To your point my next design will be very similar to the examples you have shown.
Over time it seems the more effective designs have evolved down a similar path.
There might even bee a cone baffle version I try out.

User avatar
daviscustom
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 924
Joined: Mon May 26, 2008 5:40 pm
Location: Fly-over Country

Re: Feedback on .22 Mono-core design

Post by daviscustom » Fri Jan 20, 2017 7:24 am

I think you should divide up your blast chamber into 2-3 narrow chambers perpendicular to the bore....doesn't need to be that long. Instead of a longer chamber at the end why not progressively get longer as you move towards the exit. Start small with your side port sizes and increase slowly testing along the way for performance changes...and place that port so it is a smooth transition from the baffle face into the outer chamber. Ports may get larger as the chambers do as well.
The myopic majority will be our republic's undoing.

VitaminC
Member
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:22 pm

Re: Feedback on .22 Mono-core design

Post by VitaminC » Fri Jan 20, 2017 11:08 am

Two new designs here:

First is a traditional K Baffle design.
I like the simplicity, but am not really excited about having to make 6 of these. That would take me a long long time.
But it is sure to meet my sound and accuracy goals.

Image
Image
Image

Second is my first attempt at an asymmetrical monocore.
I like this design a lot, mainly because it has less parts and would be easy for me to make (once my paperwork get back!)
I have seen videos of a very similar design on the exact rifle I plan on sticking this on...well the results were very good.
I think some version of this is what I will create once the time comes.

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

VitaminC
Member
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:22 pm

Re: Feedback on .22 Mono-core design

Post by VitaminC » Fri Jan 20, 2017 11:09 am

fishman wrote:VitaminC

your design is getting better, however, there's still more room for easy improvement. You could easily add 1-2 more baffles. your blast baffles doesnt need to be that big and your last chamber is quite large and mostly wasted space. if you designed the core to fit into the front endcap, you could possibly add a third baffle. If you want, you could turn down the OD of the tube between the threads to reduce weight and add aesthetics. you also might want to consider porting or clipping all, or some, of the baffles to introduce asymmetry and turbulence (this could be done after initial testing if you want even more performance out of it)
thanks for the feedback...its helping me get better at this!

User avatar
fishman
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 1444
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2015 9:15 pm

Re: Feedback on .22 Mono-core design

Post by fishman » Fri Jan 20, 2017 12:25 pm

You definitely want a spacer between the first K and the rear endcap. Also, make that first k symmetrical to preserve accuracy. Look at my form 1 build thread, my last k fits inside the front endcap, no wasted space. I also made my first baffle a cone because it was an easy symmetrical blast baffle design.
300 blackout form 1: http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=137293

5.56 form 1:
http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=141800&p=955647#p955647

Post Reply