Legal question on baffle caliber

[Hannibalbarca]

I have two questions, When I fill out a form 1 and I say the suppressor will be 22 cal can I make my baffles larger? Do they all have to be the same caliber?
Second question is is if I have a second form 1 suppressor and it uses the same baffles could I interchange said baffles between the two Suppressors?

[fishman]

the baffles don't really have a caliber. There's no standard for what size the hole in a baffle should be. They're all oversized but not to the same degree. Likewise, some silencers have baffles with hole diameters varying slightly throughout the can. I'm confident I could shoot 6.8mm Remington through some 6.5mm silencers or 243 through some particular 223 silencer. If the form 1 says 22 but 50 caliber bullets for through, it might raise eyebrows but I don't think you'd be breaking any rules. If the form 1 says 50 cal but 30 cal bullets don't even fit through, you're in trouble.

If you want to make a 22 silencer with baffles capable of passing 30 cal bullets, just register it for 30 cal and put it on a 22 caliber firearm.

I wouldn't mix baffles between silencers. I'm not sure of any law specifically forbidding it, but the definitions of silencers and silencer parts are so vague that you could probably be charged with something, depending on a judge's interpretation of the laws and rules.

[Hannibalbarca]

the baffles don't really have a caliber. There's no standard for what size the hole in a baffle should be. They're all oversized but not to the same degree. Likewise, some silencers have baffles with hole diameters varying slightly throughout the can. I'm confident I could shoot 6.8mm Remington through some 6.5mm silencers or 243 through some particular 223 silencer. If the form 1 says 22 but 50 caliber bullets for through, it might raise eyebrows but I don't think you'd be breaking any rules. If the form 1 says 50 cal but 30 cal bullets don't even fit through, you're in trouble.

If you want to make a 22 silencer with baffles capable of passing 30 cal bullets, just register it for 30 cal and put it on a 22 caliber firearm.

I wouldn't mix baffles between silencers. I'm not sure of any law specifically forbidding it, but the definitions of silencers and silencer parts are so vague that you could probably be charged with something, depending on a judge's interpretation of the laws and rules.

So if I'm understanding correctly I could file my form 1 as a 22 caliber but have the baffles be 50 caliber.
Just so long as it is able to shoot the caliber that's filed on the form then it's good, correct?

[BLDtylry]

Personally I would make the baffles "appropriately" sized per the approved Form1. if you want to make a change, you can always send the ATF a letter notifying them of a permanent change to your design.

[T-Rex]

If you design a suppressor to be able to handle 50cal, but register and mark it as 22lr, I could see ATF trying to make a case of it. Not saying they'd have a reason to come looking for you, but we're BS'n about it so this is my opinion. They could claim your intent was to suppress 50cal, as the 2 designs are on opposite ends of the design spectrum, and therefore made an illegal caliber change. You'd have to prove, in court, that you're too stupid to look at 22lr designs (from the past 100yrs ) and replicate one of them. The ATF would show modern, large-bore, silencer designs and compare them to yours. Not too hard to see where I'm going . Again, no reason to believe they'd be coming to your door, in the first place.

Haven't seen a case to prove it, but swapping baffles could be construed as "replacement parts" which would violate NFA rules.

Personally I would make the baffles "appropriately" sized per the approved Form1. if you want to make a change, you can always send the ATF a letter notifying them of a permanent change to your design.

A change in caliber requires a new stamp. You can find this on the ATF's website.

[John A.]

I'm confident that you can't have extra baffles.

In other words, baffles for a 22, and baffles for a 30 cal.

I understand what you said about having a can for each, but mix-n-matching, I wouldn't feel comfortable doing.

Some silencer designs do have different endcaps available for them. The 30 caliber cans with a 22 caliber endcap for instance. Though I don't know how effective they are.

I don't pretend to know the legality of that in a form 1, but I will assume that if it's good for one, it's good for all since they're all registered silencers. But that's an area where I have seen nothing definite about them either way.

[doubloon]

... I could file my form 1 as a 22 caliber but have the baffles be 50 caliber.
...

I believe that's backwards from the way they'd like you to do it.

I own multiple Spectres and clean all the baffles in the same tub then put them back into any old random tube except for the blast baffle which is marked and each tube gets one at random.

All baffles are the same caliber and all baffles match the caliber designation for which the suppressors were made.

If I had two identical tubes, one registered for 22lr and the other registered for 9mm with baffles sized appropriately for each caliber I would not mix the baffles. Besides being a dumb idea it's illegal, most laws are designed to protect dumb people anyway.

[Hannibalbarca]

If you design a suppressor to be able to handle 50cal, but register and mark it as 22lr, I could see ATF trying to make a case of it. Not saying they'd have a reason to come looking for you, but we're BS'n about it so this is my opinion. They could claim your intent was to suppress 50cal, as the 2 designs are on opposite ends of the design spectrum, and therefore made an illegal caliber change. You'd have to prove, in court, that you're too stupid to look at 22lr designs (from the past 100yrs ) and replicate one of them. The ATF would show modern, large-bore, silencer designs and compare them to yours. Not too hard to see where I'm going . Again, no reason to believe they'd be coming to your door, in the first place.

Haven't seen a case to prove it, but swapping baffles could be construed as "replacement parts" which would violate NFA rules.

Personally I would make the baffles "appropriately" sized per the approved Form1. if you want to make a change, you can always send the ATF a letter notifying them of a permanent change to your design.

A change in caliber requires a new stamp. You can find this on the ATF's website.

yes but its still a 22 as it can fire 22. its not like im registering it as a 30 cal can and then making the baffles 22 and it not being able to fire 30 like its meant to.
over boring is a thing and my ruger mark iv that i had threaded doesnt seem to have the best bore concentricity.
i also plan on threading my k31 with the hand threading kit and that definitely wont have good concentricity.

[Hannibalbarca]

... I could file my form 1 as a 22 caliber but have the baffles be 50 caliber.
...

I believe that's backwards from the way they'd like you to do it.

I own multiple Spectres and clean all the baffles in the same tub then put them back into any old random tube except for the blast baffle which is marked and each tube gets one at random.

All baffles are the same caliber and all baffles match the caliber designation for which the suppressors were made.

If I had two identical tubes, one registered for 22lr and the other registered for 9mm with baffles sized appropriately for each caliber I would not mix the baffles. Besides being a dumb idea it's illegal, most laws are designed to protect dumb people anyway.

why would it be illegal?
that is swapping baffles.

[doubloon]

...
why would it be illegal?
that is swapping baffles.

Changing the caliber is illegal without all the paperwork and $$$.

[Hannibalbarca]

...
why would it be illegal?
that is swapping baffles.

Changing the caliber is illegal without all the paperwork and $$$.

But both would be registered as 22, so you're not changing the caliber you're just swapping the baffles.

[doubloon]

...
But both would be registered as 22, so you're not changing the caliber you're just swapping the baffles.

You completely skipped over or ignored the part of my post that said "baffles sized appropriately for each caliber".

And you completely skipped over or ignored the part of my post that said "one registered for 22lr and the other registered for 9mm".

If you're not going to read or can't comprehend all the words in the responding posts then why bother asking questions?

[Hannibalbarca]

...
But both would be registered as 22, so you're not changing the caliber you're just swapping the baffles.

You completely skipped over or ignored the part of my post that said "baffles sized appropriately for each caliber".

And you completely skipped over or ignored the part of my post that said "one registered for 22lr and the other registered for 9mm".

If you're not going to read or can't comprehend all the words in the responding posts then why bother asking questions?

I don't see anywhere where it says that if I make a 22 cal suppressor I must have it be bored to 22. Like I said I have a mark iv with a threaded barrel that doesn't have the best bore concentricity and in the future I plan on buying a 220 swift rifle and again I bet the bore concentricity won't be that good.
So with this being said, again both are registered for 22, I see no reason why I wouldn't be able to intermix baffles between the Suppressors. There are no extra baffles here, just the ones in the 2 Suppressors.

[hardcase]

Suppressors loose efficiency as the bore increases. One designed for a .22 with appropriate bore would be quieter than one with a .50 cal bore.

See ADCO if you need your threads fix or just buy a new barrel and call it good.

[doubloon]

...
I don't see ...

Again, it appears you didn't actually read my post.

[alordnapa]

Well, there is no requirement that your suppressor even has to have baffles...I think you will find that a can with holes for a significantly over-bore projectile is going to suck as a .22 LR suppressor, but I understand the urge. Adding a final and/or an intermediate wipe(s) to a .30 (or larger) can will at least make it a little more effective as an expansion chamber, and if they are pre-punched you could potentially shoot any projectile diameter up to the major diameter of the baffles. ( At the cost of accuracy, shorter service life, and higher pressures) I would not try to shoot through intermediate wipes: too much danger of baffle strikes.

[doubloon]

...
I don't see anywhere where it says that if I make a 22 cal suppressor I must have it be bored to 22. ...

The form is requesting you to specify a caliber or gauge for the suppressor not the size bullet you plan to shoot through the suppressor.

it's a request for you to specify the caliber, the gauge, the diameter of the hole(s) through which the bullet will pass after leaving the muzzle.

Is it really that hard understand?

Besides the 'tacticool' factor of being able to say "I built this suppressor myself with 1/2" holes in the baffles for a less than 1/4" bullet because I wasn't sure I could drill a hole straight." what's the advantage of not just marking it 50 caliber?

[fishman]

What about this doubloon:
Is it legal to shoot 9mm through a 300 blk silencer, or 243 through a 223 silencer? The 50 cal hole and 22 bullet was just an exaggeration to show that the law is vague and unclear about what defines a silencer's caliber. My 300blk silencer has enough clearance for 8mm, 32, or 9. Can I use it on those guns or would that constitute a change of caliber? Is the silencer I made even really legal?

Exaggerating aside, asking what size the baffle hole can be/ has you be is not a stupid inquiry.

[alordnapa]

When you build a Form 1 suppressor using an Oil filter and an adapter, what is the "caliber" of the suppressor before you fire the first shot? ( Hint: Its the sound of one hand clapping)

[Elkins45]

...
why would it be illegal?
that is swapping baffles.

Changing the caliber is illegal without all the paperwork and $$$.

What if the silencer for that form has never been made? Can you send ATF a letter informing them you would like to amend the info on your form after approval but prior to construction?

[doubloon]

What about this doubloon:
Is it legal to shoot 9mm through a 300 blk silencer, ...
Exaggerating aside, asking what size the baffle hole can be/ has you be is not a stupid inquiry.

I never said anything about the legality of the caliber of bullet you pass through your suppressor.

The caliber designation on the Form 1 is the caliber of the suppressor, plain an simple.

If you want to make a 45 caliber suppressor and shoot 22 through it no problem. If you want to make a 9mm suppressor and shoot 50 cal through it, still no problem.

You want to complete a form saying you are making a 22 caliber suppressor and you actually make a 50 caliber suppressor, that could be your problem.

I am not saying anyone ever has or ever will go to jail for lying on a Form 1 or a Form 4, given the state of the records in the NFA registry I'm almost certain nobody will every find out and even if they did they probably couldn't rub two subpoenas together to start a trial.

Routine Uses.
The information will be used by ATF to make the determinations set forth in paragraph 2. In addition, to effect registration of the firearm, information as to
the identification of the firearm, date of registration, and the identification and address of person entitled to possess the firearm will be entered into the National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record. No information obtained from an application, registration, or records required to be submitted by an individual in order to comply with any provision of the National Firearms Act or regulations issued thereunder, shall, except in connection with prosecution or other action for furnishing false information, be used, directly or indirectly, as evidence against that person in any criminal proceeding with respect to a violation of law occurring prior to or concurrently with the filing of the application. The information from this application may only be disclosed to Federal authorities for purpose of prosecution for violation of the National Firearms Act.

When you build a Form 1 suppressor using an Oil filter and an adapter, what is the "caliber" of the suppressor before you fire the first shot? ( Hint: Its the sound of one hand clapping)

The Econo-Can is registered as 22lr with 1/2x28 threads.

[doubloon]

...
What if the silencer for that form has never been made? Can you send ATF a letter informing them you would like to amend the info on your form after approval but prior to construction?

viewtopic.php?t=12642

[Elkins45]

...
What if the silencer for that form has never been made? Can you send ATF a letter informing them you would like to amend the info on your form after approval but prior to construction?

viewtopic.php?t=12642

Thanks, but that didn't actually help. That thread was about adding more uppers to an AR SBR. My question was about amending a form 1 for a silencer.

I have a Form 1 that was approved for a 10" 45 caliber can that I have never even started working on yet. What I was wondering was if I could write a letter asking for either the length or caliber to be changed on the form?

[T-Rex]

I have a Form 1 that was approved for a 10" 45 caliber can that I have never even started working on yet. What I was wondering was if I could write a letter asking for either the length or caliber to be changed on the form?

You don't have to ask permission to change the length. This can be done by simply sending in a letter with the stated change. If you haven't built it yet, they may allow you to amend the caliber. Can't hurt to ask. Email Gary at [email protected].

[doubloon]

...
Thanks, but that didn't actually help. ...

Oops, copied the wrong link, there was another but it looks like T Rex has already got you covered.