The Best Cone design

[Bah21963]

The RSC cone is available to everyone now through DM. The RSC was designed by Rusty and has been proven time and time again to outperform most if not all commercial designs. All anyone has to is follow the tutorial Rusty posted after your form 1 is approved. All the information is over at form1suppressor.boards.net.

[John A.]

I did a quick search and can't find any detailed threads about the rusty cones.

Lots of mention of it, but not much other than that.

[a_canadian]

Tried to join that forum to see what's being done but only get a 'you have been banned from this forum' message. No idea why. Perhaps it's run by someone I annoyed here? No idea what an RSC or a DM might be. Nor a DHC for that matter.

[Bah21963]

I did a quick search and can't find any detailed threads about the rusty cones.

Lots of mention of it, but not much other than that.

There are pictures and links in the general section tutorial sticky at the top.

[Sergeant]

https://youtu.be/IbdV3i_qGKM

RSC cones with DHC (Double Hybrid Clips)

[Bah21963]

Rusty's RSC can on 300BO, first supers, 2nd subs

https://youtu.be/X7kvWyaf2dQ

[a_canadian]

You realise if course that without a direct comparison in the same, unedited video, with at least one other known quantity can (some established modern commercial suppressor a lot of folks would know), such audio is virtually pointless. Especially with a choppy wind buffeting the microphone. Remember the most-circulated video of JJ's sweet potato can? Massive wind. No comparison to anything else. Neva been done befo. Not saying Rusty's can isn't doing a great job. Just saying the video tells us little to nothing.

https://youtu.be/UMXEEnRlT-o

[John A.]

Yeah, the wind does make it hard. Not faulting the guy because of his camera or the weather, but it is distracting.

The gun still sounds good, and maybe better in person.

I have noticed that since you have joined here, it seems like you have a mighty big man-crush on this rusty fellow. Looking through your profile, an awful lot of your posts refer to him or his baffles by name.

I'm not putting him or you down at all. For that matter, sounds like I would like to get to know him. From what little I saw, he and I have shared interests and he sounds like a nice fella.

But he made some cones and clipped them. Historically speaking, cones and hybrids have been around for a long time man.

I haven't dove too deep in that other board because when I was lurking around when I first heard about it, most of the people posting and having discussions were more interested in which solvent trap cups fit this or that tube rather than actual design and tech

And many are even pushing these as solvent cups and recores.

Solvent traps have been both a blessing and a curse.

They have gained a lot of popularity, but drilling a hole straight in a solvent cup doesn't really mean all that much. The ability and mad skills and knowledge of a lot of the old timers around here in a machine shop would probably amaze you.

Sorry if my reply sounds negative or snobbish. It isn't meant that way. I even considered just not saying anything at all. Which is usually the best advice I got while growing up, but it's more of an invitation for you to learn about the why's and the how's of the different designs that are out there and I encourage you to make something that blows everything else out of the water.

[Sergeant]

http://form1suppressor.boards.net/threa ... ng-results
Here's a link to a thread in which meter testing is done on the RCS cans.

[John A.]

Upper 120's for sub blackouts in a bolt action. Using 1.625" od cans

While on the large side, that is respectable numbers. At least close to what you'll find using 9mm's with a mediocre can.

[Holescreek]

http://form1suppressor.boards.net/threa ... ng-results
Here's a link to a thread in which meter testing is done on the RCS cans.

Not able to view as a guest.
I signed up a few days ago but have yet to be approved.

[3strucking]

I have spent some time on the form 1 board and it seems it is geared more toward the solvent traps. If you have any interest in how to machine your own parts, how and why certain things work, etc.. etc.. Silencer Talk is the place to be. No flash lights or fuel filters here.

[a_canadian]

Often true, but there is the odd flashlight/eBay kit build posted here. But definitely more focus on actual machining skills on silencertalk.

[Sergeant]

https://youtu.be/3qKO3hLxfVA

Here is the YouTube link.
It's true the two forums cater to different approaches. That's why I belong to both.

[Bah21963]

You realise if course that without a direct comparison in the same, unedited video, with at least one other known quantity can (some established modern commercial suppressor a lot of folks would know), such audio is virtually pointless. Especially with a choppy wind buffeting the microphone. Remember the most-circulated video of JJ's sweet potato can? Massive wind. No comparison to anything else. Neva been done befo. Not saying Rusty's can isn't doing a great job. Just saying the video tells us little to nothing.

https://youtu.be/UMXEEnRlT-o

Imho your post is pointless. No meter readings and too much wind noise to hear accurately in the video you posted.

[a_canadian]

Imho your post is pointless. No meter readings and too much wind noise to hear accurately in the video you posted.

Kinda my point... So yeah, I guess you got my point. As in; a bunch of wind, coupled with unknown ammunition both super and sub sonic, camera placement well behind the muzzle, and no known-good established commercial can for direct comparison given the weak quality audio recording, makes for an entirely useless demonstration of Rusty's baffles. The Jesse James can videos tend to be shot in strong wind and from well behind the muzzle.
The .300BO can video is shot on a windy day, the mic picking up lots of distortion from the wind, and the camera is being held between 6' and 8' behind the muzzle. Same sort of thing. Not really useful as a demo.

A 1.675" OD can, about 9" to 10" long from the looks of it, would likely deliver within 4dB pounded comoared to the best industry leading suppressor with dimensions around 1.5" x 9", even if the 1.65" OD can uses flat washers with tubular spacers. Volume is important. Again, without a direct comparison using the same platform, same ammo, and a known quantity can, and a halfway decent set of parameters (little to no wind, same camera placement, decent recording quality) there's really very little if any value in such a demonstration. It's anecdotal stuff. Like 'yeah, sounds pretty quiet' sort of thing. I'm not trying to be negative, just stating what should be obvious, that if someone intends to demonstrate that a given suppressor is equal to or superior to some of the better commercial options, then it should be compared to those commercial options. Anything less serves only to fill up YouTube's servers.

[John A.]

Here's a pretty good video of one of the better blackout uppers/cans that are being made these days. Maybe the best that is being made commercially right now.

Fast forward to 1:30 for meter readings.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOSLSknTIFM

And a photo of the upper with the tube removed (not my picture):

[Sergeant]

Thanks John......lol
Now I have to build one just like it for my Blk out.
Like I don't have enough to do....

[propeine]

Here's a pretty good video of one of the better blackout uppers/cans that are being made these days. Maybe the best that is being made commercially right now.

Fast forward to 1:30 for meter readings.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOSLSknTIFM

And a photo of the upper with the tube removed (not my picture):

Liberty Leonidas...impressively quiet even compared to my DI 9mm AR. I'll be shooting both this afternoon. Maybe I'll get some video.

[John A.]

Yeah, the Leonidas achieved what many have tried to do before and failed.

They're getting 119 db from a SEMIAUTO.

I don't care who you are, that's the current gold standard of blackout cans right there.

Video would be great if you get the chance.

[Bah21963]

John, really gold standard. No disrespect but I think many would disagree for the following reasons.
1. No versatility, can't use on different calibers hosts.
2. Cost, at almost $2000 2 or 3 cans could purchased.
3. Ammo used is freedom munitions 220gr hush which costs $1.18 per round vs many other quality ammo is avaiable at a much lower cost.
4. Ammo tested with Freedom munitions is rated at 950fps which is 100 fps lower than most other commercial 300BO 220 gr ammo.
5. It's not that expensive to tune a 300bo upper to make a big difference in port noise.

I would say on a scale of 1 the worst -10 the best the leonidas is no better than a 3 for all the reasons listed above.

[T-Rex]

1. No versatility, can't use on different calibers hosts. It's a system and designed to be used as such. It would not perform the same if made swappable.
2. Cost, at almost $2000 2 or 3 cans could purchased. Subtract the upper, rail, BCG, and Lilja bbl, and the rice is around $900. Very competitive.
You can, also, send Liberty your rifle and they'll attach the suppressor at an adjusted price.
3. Ammo used is freedom munitions 220gr hush which costs $1.18 per round vs many other quality ammo is avaiable at a much lower cost. You can buy Freedom Munitions reman ammo at below the cost of these other available ammos you speak of.
4. Ammo tested with Freedom munitions is rated at 950fps which is 100 fps lower than most other commercial 300BO 220 gr ammo. Your expressed values are all from a 16" bbl and have no reflection of what an SBR is actually doing. Powder choice can and will have a difference, once a bbl is shortened. 950fps is a pretty smart number to stand with. Consider they need to please a variety of customers in a range of varying conditions. Your 1050fps has a chance to go super in hotter, more humid, and elevated environments. Especially, if coupled w/ a silencer which can and will increase velocity. Not sure that little bit of velocity is going to tip the scales, where dB's are concerned.
5. It's not that expensive to tune a 300bo upper to make a big difference in port noise. Dropping an AR15 bolt, on an empty chamber, meters at about 121dB. Liberty has pretty much silenced the report of the firearm, leaving only action noise. Please, explain these tuning practices which will get port noise to the level of a bolt drop

I would say on a scale of 1 the worst -10 the best YOUR REVIEW is no better than a 3 for all the reasons listed above.

Is it just that Rusty didn't design the Leonidas, that your opinion is so low?
It seems you've only come here to shill for Rusty's clipping service/technique and to voice negative opinions towards anything different.

[John A.]

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I'll go through some of the points why below.

If one were to want the best sounding 300 blackout can out there, the Leonidas is it. I don't know of one that is more quiet than it is.

That's what I meant by the one that all others are judged. Gold standard.

------------------
I agree with you that it's a dedicated can. That is done to avoid having a 2 stamp gun. Welding it to the barrel doesn't magically change the properties of the can though. To be honest, I would be somewhat surprised if Dave outright refused to make/sell one of the cans that is a standalone unit without the upper for those with bolt actions or other guns. I don't pretend to know what he's thinking, but he is in the business to sell silencers.

Cost is what it is. There are people buying them at that price, and Liberty is going to sell them for as much as they can and as much as the market will bear.

---------------

Cheap commercial ammo is rarely good or quiet. I can make my own bullets that outperform factory bullets in both sound performance and velocity that cost about .30 a pop if cheap is the only thing you're concerned about.

Or, I can load 194gr Lehighs with #9 powder and Rem 7 1/2 primers and pay about a buck sixty a pop for defensive or hunting purposes and anything other than play time on the range at paper targets.

Further, I h-a-t-e freedom munitions and wouldn't care if they closed their doors today permanently. Different topic altogether, not getting into it here.
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I have a blackout upper that I made an hybrid reflex/integral can for. Completely my own design. Baffles and all---not another like it anywhere in the world. It's quiet.

I don't have any fancy meters, but I honestly feel that it's more quiet than the videos that you have been posting judging by what I hear with my ear. Even still, probably not as good as the Leonidas but pretty close. I do know that it's more quiet than many other blackout uppers which gives me a lot of satisfaction knowing that my design works as well as it does.

I have openly admitted and said many times that the blackout was disappointing at first when I was using it with my old 9mm can and sounded like garbage can lids banging together.
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Also, there is very little "tuning" that you can do to the upper.

Swapping buffers and springs.

Using an adjustable gas block.

Those are usually done more for function than sound reduction and swapping between subs and supers.

Neither of which is going to make poor ammo or silencer sound considerably better. Least not in any meaningful or massive way. Ejection port noise is just one part. And also why many people choose bolt actions or break action receivers for the better suppression.

I wasn't going to mention this earlier out of respect and to not cause any waves, but I couldn't help but notice that the video's you linked were mainly fired with a bolt action gun touching at ~128 db.

I believe that would almost certainly be into the 130's if used and metered on a semi auto.

Again, not trying to start a fight, but is stating the obvious to many of the guys here.

Not to mention, that can is a larger diameter can than the commercial one he compared it to, which just be physics alone would lean toward the larger diameter can being the more effective on the meter between the two if all else were equal.

I'm not saying that the larger can is the only reason it's more quiet. His design seems better than the Griffin Recce. When ran on the same gun, it was a lot more quiet than the recce. That's respectable.
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Further, suppression isn't only about the silencer. That is one of the points I was trying to make earlier.

You may not believe this because it goes against what you read on the internet, but I've actually used lightweight tubbs flat coil buffer spring, a tac com 1 oz buffer, and enlarged the gas port in my gas block on my upper. And it's very quiet.

But I did that so I can use better powders than what are currently being used in commercial over the counter ammo so the gun will still be 100% reliable and function correctly. It also made for a better sounding upper/can. And hardly no blowback or ejection port smoke at all because the powder is almost fully burnt out by the time it reaches 6 inches of barrel space. Which is before the gas port and also reduces fouling in the receiver too.

But that is due in larger part to the fast burning pistol powders that I normally use.

If you want the most out of your equipment and gear, you'll need to look at the whole picture. That is the art of suppression.

[Bah21963]

John, You make many good points in your last reply. While I dont agree with some I respect your opinion to choose as you see fit. One comment I have is I would expect any can with a tube 1.625 od x approx 14" long to perform well on subs as the leonidas.

Your made many of the same points in your first reply then turned it into a personal attack. Why, because I have a different opinion than you.? You perceive my opinion as negativity simply because I have a different opinion. I don't know why you feel threatened or the need to be right but everyone can have an opinion even if they dont align with yours.

[John A.]

No, I'm not threatened by you. Nor have I made personal attacks or threats against you.

Where do you feel that I was attacking you?

We can go PM if you prefer ??????