Yes, it can be legal to make a silencer. For everything Form-1, from silencer designs that are easily made, to filing forms with the BATF, to 3D modeling. Remember, you must have an approved BATF Form-1 to make a silencer. All NFA laws apply.
I have just recently got into the hobby of gun-smithing(last few years). Just like everyone, probably, I built a couple ARs then a 1911 and most recently an MP5. I have always enjoyed shooting but this really is a new level of shooting and with the MP5 build/competition came an urge to buy a suprressor to go with the MP5. A short dedicated 9mm suppressor for this gun alone. I was looking at the 9K, researching though I stumbled across this forum.
Is something this short practical for the hobbyist to engineer/machine. Browsing the forums I haven't seen any suppressor that are less than 5", I am assuming there is a reason for that. If someone could help point me in the right direction it would be much appreciated. I have one photo of the internals, and who knows if that is actually the true design. Is a sub 135 db suppressor, less then 5" in length with 1.5" OD possible for someone with out hundreds of thousands of dollars of machines and extensive R&D?
A mill, lathe and drill press are the only tools I currently have at my disposal for this project. Look forward to hearing from you guys.
I planned to mill k baffles that interlock and gradually get small towards the end of the suppressor after the blast chamber. Below is the design I stumbled across.
The design you posted does not have K baffles; those are stacked conical baffles with a radius.
No, I don't think you'll be happy with such a short can. I've tried, and cylindrical suppressors shorter than 6, 6-1/2" need wipes and gel to be hearing safe. To get a 5" wipeless, dry can down to 5" and still be hearing safe, I had to use a square profile with intenal dimenions of 1-1/4" x 2-1/4". It's a monocore type, and still not as quiet as my stacked baffle or monocore 7" to 8" long 1-3/8" diameter cans, despite having about 25% more volume. There is a time component to the effectiveness of suppressors, and shorter cans simply offer less time for the baffles to do their thing, regardless of internal volume.
Also, unless you're going to use this on pistols, there's no need for the booster. The baffle design will work, albeit not K's, but use more w/ at least 1/2" spacing.
TK1968 wrote:I have just recently got into the hobby of gun-smithing(last few years). Just like everyone, probably, I built a couple ARs then a 1911 and most recently an MP5. I have always enjoyed shooting but this really is a new level of shooting and with the MP5 build/competition came an urge to buy a suprressor to go with the MP5. A short dedicated 9mm suppressor for this gun alone. I was looking at the 9K, researching though I stumbled across this forum.
Is something this short practical for the hobbyist to engineer/machine. Browsing the forums I haven't seen any suppressor that are less than 5", I am assuming there is a reason for that. If someone could help point me in the right direction it would be much appreciated. I have one photo of the internals, and who knows if that is actually the true design. Is a sub 135 db suppressor, less then 5" in length with 1.5" OD possible for someone with out hundreds of thousands of dollars of machines and extensive R&D?
A mill, lathe and drill press are the only tools I currently have at my disposal for this project. Look forward to hearing from you guys.
I planned to mill k baffles that interlock and gradually get small towards the end of the suppressor after the blast chamber. Below is the design I stumbled across.
Best regards,
-TK
You certainly have the equipment required but I would echo the sentiment that getting sub 135dB out of a 5" can is unlikely. Is your MP5 an SD or does it have an SD shroud? If not, you're not limited in diameter as much. Making a modular can is a bit verboten for the form 1 guys according to many members but there are lots of cans that can be short or long out there now and I have to think it could be workable. 5" to take the edge off and 7-8" for hearing safe.
This would be for an MP5; you are right I do not believe the booster is necessary.
Why it it so un doable it seems this company has done a fairly good job at attaining these results.
I know a lot goes into the R&D of these products but it is a bit hard for me to wrap my head around it not being possible.
I built an MP5K but it does have the SD shroud, that could be changed but I would like to keep it. If not though, and I removed the shroud, what sort of diameter would allow a short can to be possible within this range to be possible?
TK1968 wrote:
Why it it so un doable it seems this company has done a fairly good job at attaining these results.
What company?
TK1968 wrote:I know a lot goes into the R&D of these products but it is a bit hard for me to wrap my head around it not being possible.
What do you want us to tell you? That somehow your form one 1.5" x 5" suppressor will be hearing safe when cans in that size range put out by companies with massive infrastructure and hundreds of thousands spent on R&D aren't? 4"-5" cylindrical suppressors can be hearing safe with 9mm, but dry and without wipes, they run dBs in the high 130s and 140s. Again, 6 to 6-1/2" is about as short as you're gonna see a 1-3/8" to 1-1/2" diameter can that is hearing safe dry & wipeless.
TK1968 wrote:
Why it it so un doable it seems this company has done a fairly good job at attaining these results.
What company?
TK1968 wrote:I know a lot goes into the R&D of these products but it is a bit hard for me to wrap my head around it not being possible.
What do you want us to tell you? That somehow your form one 1.5" x 5" suppressor will be hearing safe when cans in that size range put out by companies with massive infrastructure and hundreds of thousands spent on R&D aren't? 4"-5" cylindrical suppressors can be hearing safe with 9mm, but dry and without wipes, they run dBs in the high 130s and 140s. Again, 6 to 6-1/2" is about as short as you're gonna see a 1-3/8" to 1-1/2" diameter can that is hearing safe dry & wipeless.
Woah man, just looking for some insight. The company is Omega and the can is the 9k. Yes, while it take lots of time to research and develop a product many times it down take quite so much to simply copy a design. The 9k is ran dry is sub 135 db and has no wipes.
Every time, I have learned anything it always starts with coping something else. Before you make your own custom parts many times you simply copy another design and learn from their work. I was hoping the same could be done here. I find it hard to believe that it can't be done, that this can can't be replicated but the knowledge well in the DIY community maybe only runs so deep. Its just hard for me to take in. Didn't mean to offend you, just wanted opinions, insight, and hopefully collaboration.
TK1968 wrote:...
Why it it so un doable it seems this company has done a fairly good job at attaining these results.
...
What company are you talking about?
Where did you find the design?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDtd2jNIwAU MUSAFAR!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CrOL-ydFMI This is Water DavidW
Complete Form 1s http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=79895
If youre serious about quiet and short, build an integral can. That's honestly your only chance at attaining your goal and it still might not even get you there
300 blackout form 1: http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=137293
5.56 form 1:
http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=141800&p=955647#p955647
fishman wrote:If youre serious about quiet and short, build an integral can. That's honestly your only chance at attaining your goal and it still might not even get you there
That sounds like a really good idea. Especially since it is going to be dedicated.
How would that affect performance and how would it be more advantageous? For 9mm at the range I normally shoot, less than 100 yards, mostly 50 yards or less, you can get pretty short with the barrel. Would you happen to have a preliminary design (link possibly) for 9mm and say a 10" integrally suppressed barrel?
TK1968 wrote: The company is Omega and the can is the 9k. Yes, while it take lots of time to research and develop a product many times it down take quite so much to simply copy a design. The 9k is ran dry is sub 135 db and has no wipes.
The Company is SilencerCo; Omega 9k is the model, and in my experience, they're pretty borderline on hearing safe with 9mm subs, even on a wide open outdoor range. Supers are painful.
Take whatever baffle stack you were planning on using. Put that in front of the muzzle. Extend the can rearward over the entire barrel and port the s--t out of barrel past the first 1.5 inches. Keep the expansion chamber over the barrel separate from the blast chamber. Integral silencers 101.
300 blackout form 1: http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=137293
5.56 form 1:
http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=141800&p=955647#p955647
TK1968 wrote:This would be for an MP5; you are right I do not believe the booster is necessary.
Why it it so un doable it seems this company has done a fairly good job at attaining these results.
I know a lot goes into the R&D of these products but it is a bit hard for me to wrap my head around it not being possible.
I built an MP5K but it does have the SD shroud, that could be changed but I would like to keep it. If not though, and I removed the shroud, what sort of diameter would allow a short can to be possible within this range to be possible?
Can you post a pic of this? I'm currently building an MP5KSD but without the barrel ports. May need to pick your brain. PM me if you need an email address.
Still you should be able to fit 1.625" under there. Without a shroud you could go up in diameter as much as you wanted but diameter is not as effective as length and there are diminishing returns.
As for the R&D the problem is you cannot experiment.
ETA you are literally building an SD now except shorter. There are plenty of guys doing this. Port the barrel, make an 8" can that covers 4" of barrel, find a locking piece that works, done.
TK1968 wrote:This would be for an MP5; you are right I do not believe the booster is necessary.
Why it it so un doable it seems this company has done a fairly good job at attaining these results.
I know a lot goes into the R&D of these products but it is a bit hard for me to wrap my head around it not being possible.
I built an MP5K but it does have the SD shroud, that could be changed but I would like to keep it. If not though, and I removed the shroud, what sort of diameter would allow a short can to be possible within this range to be possible?
Can you post a pic of this? I'm currently building an MP5KSD but without the barrel ports. May need to pick your brain. PM me if you need an email address.
Still you should be able to fit 1.625" under there. Without a shroud you could go up in diameter as much as you wanted but diameter is not as effective as length and there are diminishing returns.
As for the R&D the problem is you cannot experiment.
ETA you are literally building an SD now except shorter. There are plenty of guys doing this. Port the barrel, make an 8" can that covers 4" of barrel, find a locking piece that works, done.
Go 1.625 under the handguard go 1" past the handguard / barrel ang go 2" there. Inside the 2 inch section place an 35mm silencer so Most volume flows over the cone blastbaffle and fils the volume Well. Done that more than once and it works great.
