Tube/Baffle help

[cw75lea]

Hello all first question from the new guy because I cant seem to find any info after searching and searching.

I'm looking into "building" my first Form 1 can. I'm just in the planning stages right now and looking into what is available to me and looking at making it all titanium (minus freeze plugs, those will be SS). Ive found the tube that I want and talked to Andy at Tiger Titanium and he confirmed I could get any custom length I wanted so long as it's over the 6" minimum. Right now my plan is to use 1.500" O.D., .070" wall, 1.360" I.D. Grade 9 tubing. Solvent Traps Direct has 1.354" O.D. titanium for spacers; I'm assuming this sleeves 1.354" O.D. is close enough to the 1.360" I.D. of the outer tube to still have a snug fit. Additionally J&S Tactical sells their JForm D to form either Dorman 555-104-B or Sealed Power 381-3179 freeze plugs by their recommendation? When I see the diameter of these plugs I see them listed as 1.350", will this be too loose within the 1.360" I.D. tube. Is there a way to flare the plugs to meet the 1.360" I.D. tube?

Thanks for all responses.

CWL

[ECCO Machine]

If you're buying spacers and freeze plugs and very concerned with ID and OD, it kinda suggests you don't have much equipment & tooling; Tiger does not see threaded tubes, so if you don't have a lathe with threading capability, you need to be looking elsewhere.

.010" under is a little on the sloppy side, but will be fine. You don't want a super tight fit; all of my baffles are .005" under tube ID, so in 1.500" .070" wall, they're 1.355" +.001"/-.005" Try to go tighter than .004" under, they don't wanna come back out past the threads without serious effort.

As an aside, freeze plugs suck. They're made of very soft steel and you're stretching it to form them. I did a can with them just because I wanted to see how (not) durable they are, and they failed during the first mag of full auto fire from my 13" .308 MG. If you can't turn your own baffles, you'll be much happier with production stainless or Ti CNC machined baffles that you just poke the holes through.

[cw75lea]

First off, as for threading a tube I have access to a facility where I can get this done. So, you are correct, I don't have a lathe at this point but will most likely get one in the future to play/practice/learn with before building a complete Form 1 on my own. From a Form 1 learning experience i.e. (paperwork submittal) I figured I may just build one with off the shelf parts.

It's a shame that everyone seems to build "do it yourself" parts but don't carry everything you need in one place. Brand A has one item, Brand B has another, and Brand C etc. etc. etc. And, most just advertise Generic B, C, or D cell sizes but if you can find specs on them then that's were you see the ranges in sizes from one manufacturer to another.

Tiger Titanium said they sell their tubing to silencer manufacturers and looking at the specs for one of the tubes they offer, 1.500" O.D. with 1.360" I.D., this seems to be the same size tubing that Solvent Traps Direct offers. That said, if I were to buy end caps/quick attach adapters, should I be able to have a tube from Tiger machined to accept the end cap threads?

What advise do you have for Stainless, or Ti baffles? Cost may be a wash over freeze plugs if you have to spend $100+ just for the jig for that.

Thanks,
CWL

[ECCO Machine]

Tiger Titanium said they sell their tubing to silencer manufacturers and looking at the specs for one of the tubes they offer, 1.500" O.D. with 1.360" I.D., this seems to be the same size tubing that Solvent Traps Direct offers. That said, if I were to buy end caps/quick attach adapters, should I be able to have a tube from Tiger machined to accept the end cap threads?

They do (you're talking to one who buys from them), and 1.500" OD .070" wall is plenty stout. I use that for my heavy duty Valkyrie series, and actually reduce the wall thickness in the center to .050"

I don't think Tiger offers any machining services, though. But I've never asked.

What advise do you have for Stainless, or Ti baffles? Cost may be a wash over freeze plugs if you have to spend $100+ just for the jig for that.

17-4 stainless baffles are my preference for hard use rifle cans. Ti is a bit lighter, but not as strong, not as hard, and is "hurt" by temperatures over 1,000°F (really shouldn't exceed 800°F).

[cw75lea]

My current plan is to build a can for my .223 w/ 16" barrel. From there move on to a .458 can and then maybe make one for my 1911.

Tiger does not offer machining services; Andy says there is a machine shop next door to them and he has been learning from them but not to the point he/they'd do it for others. Not worried about shaving .020" out of the center of a Ti can. My guess is the only item that would be able to tell the difference would be a scale. As for, machining I can have that done local to me; my question goes back to, will a Solvent Trap Direct end plug fit the I.D. of a 1.500"/1.360" Tiger Ti tube? STD advertises that their D cell tubes are 1.500"/1.360". I would assume then that if the tube threads are machined correctly (Tiger Ti) then the STD end caps would work just fine.

I may not have been clear in my question about the baffles, I wasn't asking about a preference between the two materials as much as do you have a source for baffles themselves? I am assuming you make yours yourself. This is a "toy" for me, I won't ever be shooting full auto/bump fire with them. When I go to the range I'll typically shoot 100-200 rifle rounds and 300-500 pistol rounds and most of these are not dumps. I don't know that I have ever dumped a 30rd mag actually. Stating that as I won't necessarily be all that hard on them.

Thanks again,
CWL

[T-Rex]

It seems you're interested in building a "kit" suppressor and there's nothing wrong with that. Honestly, your best bet would be to join the form1boards and search there.

This section will give you some answers. (need to join to view)

[John A.]

Lots of companies used to sell solvent traps that required some work to make a suppressor.

ATF frowned on it though, and that's why you are having difficulty sourcing everything from a single place.

If the tiger company (or whatever you called it) only sells raw titanium tubing, you may save money just buying tubing from titanium joe or on ebay.

Also, unless your local place you want to do the work for you is licensed to make suppressor parts, atf can bust them for manufacturing without a license. itar violations, tax evasion, etc.

A form 1 application to make a suppressor is only good for the person/trust who filled it out or by licensed manufacturers. And in the case of the latter, you would need to fill out a form 4 to buy one of their suppressors, or pay them to do a re-core for you.

I think the only exception is the engraving while you are present since that technically isn't making anything but rather only identification marking to satisfy fed. requirements.

[cw75lea]

Figured out the place that sells exactly what I need and is a very reputable company. Just had to know the right places to look and how to ask the right questions.

I thank those that have answered m questions and I appreciate it. But everything I’ve read on all the forums is people scared to death that the big bad boogie man is going to get them. Seriously you think the BATF is gong to raid some randomn guy that is following the rules? You think the BATF is going to arrest/fine somone for having a threaded pipe in their house/shop? If that were the case they could raid every single plumbers house and arrest them everyday of the week. He’ll they could raid my house right now and try to make charges stick cause I’ve got guns and I also have a C cell and a D cell mag light in my possession. And if they wanted to they could probably make those charges stick. But, the bottom line is I haven’t done anything wrong, don’t plan on doing anything wrong and as such I may as well be the gray man. I just shake my head at every single person that thinks the Man is out to get them.

[ECCO Machine]

Also, unless your local place you want to do the work for you is licensed to make suppressor parts, atf can bust them for manufacturing without a license. itar violations, tax evasion, etc.

Threading both ends of a tube for him would be no problem. A threaded tube is just a threaded tube until it's made into a suppressor. But I agree, he'll be money ahead to buy an already threaded tube unless the length doesn't work for him. I'd charge $40 to thread both ends of a tube for someone just walking in. It's not worth taking the time to deal with them and draft an invoice for any less.

[John A.]

Figured out the place that sells exactly what I need and is a very reputable company. Just had to know the right places to look and how to ask the right questions.

I thank those that have answered m questions and I appreciate it. But everything I’ve read on all the forums is people scared to death that the big bad boogie man is going to get them. Seriously you think the BATF is gong to raid some randomn guy that is following the rules? You think the BATF is going to arrest/fine somone for having a threaded pipe in their house/shop? If that were the case they could raid every single plumbers house and arrest them everyday of the week. He’ll they could raid my house right now and try to make charges stick cause I’ve got guns and I also have a C cell and a D cell mag light in my possession. And if they wanted to they could probably make those charges stick. But, the bottom line is I haven’t done anything wrong, don’t plan on doing anything wrong and as such I may as well be the gray man. I just shake my head at every single person that thinks the Man is out to get them.

You asked why it was so hard to get threaded tubes that can be attached to a barrel, along with solvent cups, and why you couldn't just have someone do the work for you at "your local shop". I answered your question, even if it probably wasn't the one you wanted to hear.

ATF has effectively put the stops on that practice again. You can ask sdtactical, tyca, and others why they stopped selling solvent traps and solvent cups, or threaded caps as kits, or several of the people on ebay that they have prosecuted for selling muzzlebrakes that could theoretically be used as "suppressor components".

[propeine]

Figured out the place that sells exactly what I need and is a very reputable company. Just had to know the right places to look and how to ask the right questions.

I thank those that have answered m questions and I appreciate it. But everything I’ve read on all the forums is people scared to death that the big bad boogie man is going to get them. Seriously you think the BATF is gong to raid some randomn guy that is following the rules? You think the BATF is going to arrest/fine somone for having a threaded pipe in their house/shop? If that were the case they could raid every single plumbers house and arrest them everyday of the week. He’ll they could raid my house right now and try to make charges stick cause I’ve got guns and I also have a C cell and a D cell mag light in my possession. And if they wanted to they could probably make those charges stick. But, the bottom line is I haven’t done anything wrong, don’t plan on doing anything wrong and as such I may as well be the gray man. I just shake my head at every single person that thinks the Man is out to get them.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017 ... rap-parts/

https://www.thetrace.org/2017/05/solven ... uppressor/

http://www.guns.com/2017/03/31/atf-clos ... trap-line/

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016 ... er-arrest/

That would be why. Because the BATF did raid a bunch of them last year. So a random guy...no but the businesses selling those items, most certainly.

[joe0121]

here are a couple links that may be relevent to you interests OP

https://diversifiedmachine.us/


https://www.zmachineworx.com/


https://www.jmpf.company/?gclid=CjwKCAj ... p4QAvD_BwE

https://solventtrapsdirect.com/

https://www.form1builder.com/product-ca ... trap-kits/