Brainstorming mods for a quieter suppressor

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dave.223
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Brainstorming mods for a quieter suppressor

Post by dave.223 »

So, been having lots of fun with pest control around the countryside with my suppressor, build thread here: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=139444
Direct link to video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UuyaVnp93o

Got me thinking about ways to make it even more quieter, ways and ideas that I havent seen or heard of before. First idea was a simple convenient way to add ablative medium for shooting wet. As it currently is, the options are to unscrew suppressor from gun, add medium into blast chamber using some kind of long tip bottle, screw it on. PITA and time consuming. Other option is using one of those pipettes. Again, an inconvenient hassle. And if your using any kind of gel, it becomes a bigger hassle as now you have to watch out so none of gets in the baffle bore along the bullet flight path, or else you could have a baffle strike and toast your suppressor.
So, how about a mini one way check valve put in through the side of tube wall at around the middle of the suppressor? :wink: ...Heres the thought process: silencers get hottest around 3'' from the barrel, so thats where the medium would be most effective. A slim/flat/mini check valve would have minimal protrusion beyond the tube walls, would deliver the medium exactly where its needed, it wont get in the baffle bores, and adding the medium would be extremely easy using a cone twist top bottle- something like this: https://images.sks-bottle.com/images/2533-01LRGt.jpg That is what I currently use, and its a very convenient simple easy open/close spill proof bottle, but the problem is in getting the ablative where it needs to go, in a quick convenient manner.
The baffle stack could be split so that half would go in through the barrel end of the tube, other half would go through the front, and they would contact in the middle against a spacer that has a cutout for the check valve, and this would also serve as a blast chamber. This would double benefit, as I remember reading somewhere (maybe on this forum) that a blast chamber 3'' from the barrel tip was more effective than one right at the barrel end. I can totally picture the setup in my mind, hope I explained it well enough.

Another idea I was pondering upon, (10/22 specific, but can be made to fit most guns) is some way how to make it have a bolt action/ single shot function. The bolt clack is very loud, so this would be a huge improvement. I know someone had done it with some complex trigger setup, but they only made a few of those. I have seen those metal plates that you stick on the side of the bolt to keep it from cycling, but its just another inconvenient piece of gear to lug around on hikes and stuff, and it aint tacticool. :lol:
My idea is for a pin that goes through a drilled hole in the receiver just behind the bolt (when closed). Pin would have a simple flip switch/lever activated mechanism or a clicky-pen type mechanism. Location of pin would be on the same side as charging handle so it could easily be accessed & activated by reaching up with your trigger finger. Entire mechanism probably wouldnt protrude any further than an aftermarket upgraded charging handle. Another option would be to put the mechanism on top of the receiver, in the same location as is the safety on most bolt guns.

I know I can have some really crazy ideas sometimes, but thats what my friend told me when I said I wanted to make a suppressor from all machined parts, without a lathe, for around $100. Well now hes working on his second one, after seeing that I'd done it :wink:
So, what you all think of this Idea?
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Re: Brainstorming mods for a quieter suppressor

Post by doubloon »

dave.223 wrote:...
Another idea I was pondering upon, (10/22 specific, ... some way how to make it have a bolt action/ single shot
So, what you all think of this Idea?
The Colossic bolt lock was a convenient variant of this idea. http://www.legalsilencer.com/?p=67
dave.223 wrote:So, been having lots of fun ...

Got me thinking about ... A slim/flat/mini check valve would have minimal protrusion beyond the tube walls, would deliver the medium exactly where its needed, ...
I've mentioned check valves somewhere before, may not have been here, but a CO2 cartridge with a momentary release into a check valve threaded into a strategic position on a 22lr suppressor might be able to stand up to the pressure. Maybe one of these in 316 http://www.cambridgereactordesign.com/c ... nline.html

I don't know the spec's on them.

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John A.
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Re: Brainstorming mods for a quieter suppressor

Post by John A. »

I'm still waiting on my 5th and 6th build paperwork. One of which is going to be similar to the gemtech mist, on a lakefield (pre savage) bolt action.

I understand why you'd want to quiet the action down on a 10/22. But if you're going to lock the bolt closed, why not just a single shot or a bolt action in the first place? The Savage Mk2 FVSR is about the cost of a 10/22. And no annoying ejection port noise and AK clackity clack :lol:

They also make delrin bolt buffers for 10/22's, but for the life of me, I can't really tell the difference between one or the other.

There was a guy who drilled into the face of the barrel and inserted some thin plastic, just enough to cushion some of the metal to metal smack which was an improvement in action noise sound. The video is on youtube somewhere. Sorry, but I can't remember the name of it, but involved modding the 10/22 either in the description or the title.
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Re: Brainstorming mods for a quieter suppressor

Post by garredondojr »

the one way check valve sounds like it could work. One option that i'd look into is those mini grease guns. I have one for my air tools that you just use your thumb to pump it. they even make them that screw onto tubes of grease. you could fill it full of lithium grease and would be quick and easy to "charge" your suppressor with ablative.

This is what I have. https://www.amazon.com/Grease-Gun-For-I ... B000FN8KZE
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Re: Brainstorming mods for a quieter suppressor

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doubloon wrote:
dave.223 wrote:...
Another idea I was pondering upon, (10/22 specific, ... some way how to make it have a bolt action/ single shot
So, what you all think of this Idea?
The Colossic bolt lock was a convenient variant of this idea. http://www.legalsilencer.com/?p=67
dave.223 wrote:So, been having lots of fun ...

Got me thinking about ... A slim/flat/mini check valve would have minimal protrusion beyond the tube walls, would deliver the medium exactly where its needed, ...
I've mentioned check valves somewhere before, may not have been here, but a CO2 cartridge with a momentary release into a check valve threaded into a strategic position on a 22lr suppressor might be able to stand up to the pressure. Maybe one of these in 316 http://www.cambridgereactordesign.com/c ... nline.html

I promise I did my research, and I came across all of them except the colossic. It is actually the most viable and most practical one of them all. But the price is pretty steep for a 1" piece of steel. But its definitely something I would want to try. So I recently acquired a friend with a CNC mill, does anyone have any diagrams or 3d files of the colossic?


Yup that is exactly something of the sorts that I was thinking of. Given the one-way design, there shouldnt be any concerns with leaks from fouling that would prevent it from closing, the internal pressures would create a very strong seal, speaking of which, it would have to be capable of pressures at like 10,000 PSI? And using an ablative cocktail of Water gel & a gun cleaning additive- will keep the valve clean and clean out your suppressor while you shoot!
question though- why CO2? It wouldnt be cold. At most suppress FRP...
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Re: Brainstorming mods for a quieter suppressor

Post by garredondojr »

CO2 would only purge the O2 in my eyes just eliminating FRP like you mentioned. One of the Deputies I work with said he uses shaving cream as an ablative in rifle cans. never heard of that as I thought ablatives in a rifle can were a no no.
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Re: Brainstorming mods for a quieter suppressor

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John A. wrote:I'm still waiting on my 5th and 6th build paperwork. One of which is going to be similar to the gemtech mist, on a lakefield (pre savage) bolt action.

I understand why you'd want to quiet the action down on a 10/22. But if you're going to lock the bolt closed, why not just a single shot or a bolt action in the first place? The Savage Mk2 FVSR is about the cost of a 10/22. And no annoying ejection port noise and AK clackity clack :lol:

They also make delrin bolt buffers for 10/22's, but for the life of me, I can't really tell the difference between one or the other.

There was a guy who drilled into the face of the barrel and inserted some thin plastic, just enough to cushion some of the metal to metal smack which was an improvement in action noise sound. The video is on youtube somewhere. Sorry, but I can't remember the name of it, but involved modding the 10/22 either in the description or the title.
I use semi mostly, but there are times when you want it extra quite. Another problem is trying to catch the brass when shooting in a pasture- you dont want livestock eating casings. So therefore the need arises for a dual gun.

Got one of those buffers installed. Seen that video, will be doing it soon. But theres still the problem with instances/places where you cant leave casings laying around on the ground.
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Re: Brainstorming mods for a quieter suppressor

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dave.223 wrote:... still the problem with instances/places where you cant leave casings laying around on the ground.
brass catcher?
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Re: Brainstorming mods for a quieter suppressor

Post by quiettime »

garredondojr wrote:CO2 would only purge the O2 in my eyes just eliminating FRP like you mentioned..
There is a cooling effect as it expands
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Re: Brainstorming mods for a quieter suppressor

Post by garredondojr »

quiettime wrote:
garredondojr wrote:CO2 would only purge the O2 in my eyes just eliminating FRP like you mentioned..
There is a cooling effect as it expands
I get that it's cold as hell when it changes from a liquid to a gas but I'm sure that dissipates rapidly in said environment.

Now if you had a way to introduce it while shooting I could see the benefit but a charge and shoot affair I just don't see the gains vs an ablative.
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Re: Brainstorming mods for a quieter suppressor

Post by quiettime »

garredondojr wrote:
garredondojr wrote: Now if you had a way to introduce it while shooting I could see the benefit but a charge and shoot affair I just don't see the gains vs an ablative.
Aw heck thought that was the idea
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Re: Brainstorming mods for a quieter suppressor

Post by dave.223 »

doubloon wrote:
dave.223 wrote:... still the problem with instances/places where you cant leave casings laying around on the ground.
brass catcher?
Have one. cant use it because it dont fit with a scope on. And when I had it, was big, bulky, inconvenient, and restricts access to manually cycling the bolt.
And then it doesnt address the other problem of having a bolt action function for extra quite. The clik-clack is what startles livestock.
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Re: Brainstorming mods for a quieter suppressor

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quiettime wrote:
garredondojr wrote:CO2 would only purge the O2 in my eyes just eliminating FRP like you mentioned..
There is a cooling effect as it expands
You really only get any noticable cooling effect when it goes liquid-gas rapidly, and it needs to be in sufficient amounts of volume/ bursts. And, the rapid cooling/heating will stress & wear out metal faster.
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Re: Brainstorming mods for a quieter suppressor

Post by dave.223 »

Im really gonna look into using one of those mini check valves. In the name of science, its worth it. :D
If all fails, Ill just get the hole welded shut with an extra thick weld bead.
Maybe sometime in december ill find the time to do it.
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Re: Brainstorming mods for a quieter suppressor

Post by alordnapa »

My idea for an optimum suppressor is an empty can, with shoot-though rubber seals on the in and out sides. A vacuum would be pulled on the "tube" (There is no real reason for a tube shape except for a tube makes a handy vacuum tank) As a bullet punctures the input side, the following gases would go from a high-pressure state, to an near instantaneous low pressure state ( Depending on the vacuum pressure) and following the combined law of gasses, the temperature of the gasses would drop suddenly. The second shoot through wipe would just delay the depressed gas volume until it was punctured by the bullet, or blown out by high pressure gasses, also resulting in a phase change for the muzzle blast. Ablatives would probably help, but you would have to use one that did not vaporize in a near vacuum; possibly lithium grease?

The same design could be used as just the first stage of a suppressor, with conventional baffles to follow the vacuum chamber. Admittedly, this would only be good for one shot, but with a large enough chamber, and a high enough vacuum, nearly any projectile could significantly suppressed.
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Re: Brainstorming mods for a quieter suppressor

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dave.223 wrote:
doubloon wrote:
dave.223 wrote:... still the problem with instances/places where you cant leave casings laying around on the ground.
brass catcher?
Have one. cant use it because it dont fit with a scope on. And when I had it, was big, bulky, inconvenient, and restricts access to manually cycling the bolt.

And then it [doesn't] address the other problem of having a bolt action function for extra quite. The clik-clack is what startles livestock.
You have muddled your problem scope and you're over thinking the issues. You're inventing more problems than actually exist.

If your real goal is quiet as possible rodent control without leaving cases laying around for your cows to eat (but for some reason you're not worried about them eating little balls of lead left behind) then the solution is plain and simple.

You need to switch to case-less ammo.

A 22 cal Marauder will take care of most of your problems and if you think your problems are bigger than they actually are then there's always the 25 cal Marauder. If you want something fancier look at the Benjamin Armada, if you want to keep your semi-auto look at the Bullmaster or the FX Revolution.
https://youtu.be/q1upH-LiQL8?t=7

If you don't like the idea of charging a PCP then I'd suggest a 22 cal or a 25 cal Webley Patriot or Beeman Kodiak springer rifle. Both theses rifles have been clocked right around 93dB which is quieter than anything you'll ever do with a reasonable sized can on a 22. No noise, no case, no fuss.

In the video below the most dominate sound for the 22 cal before the TING of the is the hammer dropping. The 25 cal is a bit louder but still quiet.

I have seen a buzzard size animal taken with a 177 cal Beeman R9 at about 50 yards so it's hard to imagine one of these guns not filling your needs.

https://youtu.be/aDNFo5tFzMo?t=338


But, if your real goal is not quiet, clean pest control and you're just drumming up reasons to trick out a 10/22 then carry on.
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Re: Brainstorming mods for a quieter suppressor

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doubloon wrote: You have muddled your problem scope and you're over thinking the issues. You're inventing more problems than actually exist.

If your real goal is quiet as possible rodent control without leaving cases laying around for your cows to eat (but for some reason you're not worried about them eating little balls of lead left behind) then the solution is plain and simple.

You need to switch to case-less ammo.

A 22 cal Marauder will take care of most of your problems and if you think your problems are bigger than they actually are then there's always the 25 cal Marauder. If you want something fancier look at the Benjamin Armada, if you want to keep your semi-auto look at the Bullmaster or the FX Revolution.
...
...
But, if your real goal is not quiet, clean pest control and you're just drumming up reasons to trick out a 10/22 then carry on.

No, not creating a problem or muddling with any lol. Im just very particular with what gear I have, how it functions, and how I want it to function.

The light weight brass sits on top of the grass, any bullets, penetrate into the dirt. Case less ammo would be awesome, if I could get it.

I want to stay with the 10/22 takedown platform. I get on my dirtbike, go for a ride through the woods to the neighbors field, with a compact .22 that is fully enclosed in a backpack and doesnt snag on anything along the trail. Besides, an air rifle just kills the fun in "rifle" and "shooting". Might as well just set traps :lol: .

you're just drumming up reasons to trick out a 10/22 then carry on.


Yes, Pretty much what I want. A 10/22 with all the functions I want out of it.

Was gonna save this for another thread, but might just throw it on here- Looking for ways to get a takedown barrel free floated. Was at the range recently, and compared how much the POI shift is between resting receiver and fore end on sandbags, and the difference was very significant.
Yes, I know I can get a NON takedown with free floating barrel, but then its not a takedown, and not what I want. I wont be able to throw it in a backpack and take it with me through the woods on a bike.
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Re: Brainstorming mods for a quieter suppressor

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dave.223 wrote:
doubloon wrote:...

Yes, Pretty much what I want. A 10/22 with all the functions I want out of it.

Was gonna save this for another thread, but might just throw it on here- Looking for ways to get a takedown barrel free floated. Was at the range recently, and compared how much the POI shift is between resting receiver and fore end on sandbags, and the difference was very significant.
Yes, I know I can get a NON take-down with free floating barrel, but then its not a take-down, and not what I want. I wont be able to throw it in a backpack and take it with me through the woods on a bike.
No harm in that at all, just trying to separate whether or not an expedient solution was acceptable or desired. It's good to swing for the fence, especially when it's a challenge.

A free floated take down barrel is an interesting proposition. I like to think in what passes for barrel harmonics of a bull profile 22lr it shouldn't matter if the barrel is floated but ... all mine are as much as possible.
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Re: Brainstorming mods for a quieter suppressor

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doubloon wrote:No harm in that at all, just trying to separate whether or not an expedient solution was acceptable or desired. It's good to swing for the fence, especially when it's a challenge.

A free floated take down barrel is an interesting proposition. I like to think in what passes for barrel harmonics of a bull profile 22lr it shouldn't matter if the barrel is floated but ... all mine are as much as possible.

I like a challenge :wink: Ive amazed myself at times at the things I can do with what seemed an impossible idea :wink:

I have a bull barrel. Dont remember if its whistle pig or green mountain, but its the sleeved aluminum. Yes, its accurate, and yes there is a huge shift in POI if the fore end is rested on something, or if its free floated - supported behind the takedown mechanism. the POI shift was something like 1.5-2'' @ 50yards, and varied depending on how far out the support was from the mechanism.
The fore end would be totally separated from the barrel. Barrel would be attached, and then the fore end. If you noticed in my suppressor build video and other videos, the fore end is missing from the 10/22 in some shots. Because when I purchased the stock, they didnt have one for the takedown with a bull barrel, so I just cut it, and when needed It just snaps onto the barrel and holds with friction.
Im thinking 2 or 3 parallel alignment pins epoxied into one piece of the stock, with the other piece having parallel receiving tubes for the pins epoxied into the stock, held in place by an adjustable draw latch (like this: https://images1.mcmaster.com/mvA/conten ... 1310982792) on the bottom- over the top/covering the takedown release pin- which would also prevent you from being able to attempt to release the barrel with the fore end still attached- a safety measure of sorts to prevent damage to the alignment of the pins. I would then cut down all the points where the plastic touches the barrel until its free floating.
This might put some torquing onto the receiver end, so bedding may be needed to keep it all from flexing.
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