Two Form 1’s in the design phase

Yes, it can be legal to make a silencer. For everything Form-1, from silencer designs that are easily made, to filing forms with the BATF, to 3D modeling. Remember, you must have an approved BATF Form-1 to make a silencer. All NFA laws apply.

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T-Rex
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Re: Two Form 1’s in the design phase

Post by T-Rex »

I still think you need to move the waist vent rearward. The gas isn't going to make a 90* turn. You need to anticipate it moving forward and off the boreline. Draw it so the "lips" of either cut are about .06 overlapping. Remember, you can always remove material.
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Re: Two Form 1’s in the design phase

Post by fishman »

That waist vent is very small
300 blackout form 1: http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=137293

5.56 form 1:
http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=141800&p=955647#p955647
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Re: Two Form 1’s in the design phase

Post by daviscustom »

If you look at the lower left hand part of the Tirant baffle pic you can barely see the top of the scoop cut coming up close to front face of the baffle..... guessing it sits down in the bore about the same distance as the width of that front flat face. I went ahead and moved out the cut that opens the port a little more and also places a more pronounced scoop in the area T-Rex is describing..... maybe that upper part of the scoop doesn’t need to cut so far out, which would leave more of the arch at the top of the port cut. If I don’t cut the upper portion as far off center I can remove more material on the face.

https://i.imgur.com/kZGRtTf.jpg

My intent is to start conservative in the setup and cut outward until the vent port is similar size to the TiRant

Does anyone have pictures of the baffles that you know are specifically out of a 9 mm TiRant?
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Re: Two Form 1’s in the design phase

Post by T-Rex »

These are the last K-Baffles I made. They were for a K type 30cal suppressor, on a 300blk bolt rifle. Five of these were used w/ a 60* blast cone. From tip to tail, the stack was 4in. It performed much better than anticipated. Eight of these, w/ a 60* cone, would measure ~6.7in.
The OD is 1.237in.
The distance from the inside edge of the facial scoop to the part of the vent closest to the face is ~.07in.

Face
Image

Section through scoop and vent
Image

Section through kidney beans, looking towards scoop
Image

Section through kidney beans, looking towards vent
Image


Yes, start conservatively. I don't even go back to the machines. I use a needle file to open the waist vent. The edges are super sharp and thin. It doesn't take much filing to open that vent port.
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Re: Two Form 1’s in the design phase

Post by daviscustom »

I like the way you did that port. Did you come in from the front at an angle through the scoop to cut it? Have you tried it with pistol calibers?.....subs only? I have been considering a heavy duty K-can for the 308.

I was trying to make the front face deeper, and trying to take the scoop as deep as I could to remove material and open up the scoop to the trough in the face of the baffle. I will play with it more.
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Re: Two Form 1’s in the design phase

Post by T-Rex »

daviscustom wrote: Did you come in from the front at an angle through the scoop to cut it?
Yes
Have you tried it with pistol calibers?
I haven't, no. Just 300blk. I'm sure they tame 25 as well
.....subs only?
Yes.
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Re: Two Form 1’s in the design phase

Post by fishman »

Those look a lot like my 300blk Ks
Image
Image
300 blackout form 1: http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=137293

5.56 form 1:
http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=141800&p=955647#p955647
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Re: Two Form 1’s in the design phase

Post by daviscustom »

Ok I changed the angle of attack back to where I started (somewhat). I will have to stop the smaller radiused cut in the face in that area to leave material. I realize I am still staring the port cut higher than you suggest, but the top of the actual waste port starts about even with the bottom of the face scoop (too high?)..... do you think extra “mouth” leading to the port will be detrimental? I looked at from the stand point again the more room you leave for expansion then more likely the cross jet might have more influence to push the stream off center.... and all roads angle towards the port. Do you think the extra cut at the top is going to cause a problem? Anything that misses the port will at least be diverted off center to create more turbulence in the next chamber.

https://i.imgur.com/Sr4e4qL.jpg
Last edited by daviscustom on Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:18 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Two Form 1’s in the design phase

Post by daviscustom »

The images you guys are getting to display in your posts.... are you using IMGUR or do you have them hosted somewhere else? I’m having difficulty finding an image link so that you don’t have to click on the link
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Re: Two Form 1’s in the design phase

Post by fishman »

Image

Right click on the image. Open in new tab. Copy the link in the address bar of your browser.
do you think extra “mouth” leading to the port will be detrimental? I looked at from the stand point again the more room you leave for expansion then more likely the cross jet might have more influence to push the stream off center
yes. I designed my Ks to have as much gas pushed off centerline as possible.
300 blackout form 1: http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=137293

5.56 form 1:
http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=141800&p=955647#p955647
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Re: Two Form 1’s in the design phase

Post by daviscustom »

Ok I managed to get it opened into another window but when I copy the address I still get a link to be clicked on....tried putting that link in [Img] but I'm getting a size issue....did you have to resize to get it to work? ....I miss the handy Img link they had on photobucket!
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Re: Two Form 1’s in the design phase

Post by daviscustom »

In regards to the small extra cut above the rear scoop, My hope was that the main crossjet would be below it and it would just allow extra flow to be vectored into the port off the boreline....maybe it would just create turbulence in a place I don't want it.

T-Rex did you make those k's on CNC or on manual equipment? I have been considering purchasing a small rotary table to do the face milling on a bridgeport at work. I'm concerned my
'live tooling" set up on my Atlas isn't rigid enough to mill Grade 5 Ti very well, and I would have less information to work with in terms of rotational positioning if I try to gear it down and rotate the part by manually turning the drive pulley on the lathe to mill a circular path.
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Re: Two Form 1’s in the design phase

Post by T-Rex »

I think your best bet is a straight plunge with the sweep being an option. Also, the main facial dish is typically larger than the bean cuts. Here's a build doing almost an identical K, albeit for 22lr.

All my stuff is done a manual machines. I used my live tool axis on the lathe. Look at my 30cal bolt rifle build and you can see how I use the live tool for slotted arcs. Only a couple easy things to make. I make the plate template in Acad and print to scale. Sure, a hole may be a fraction of a degree off, but it's definitely close enough for the work being done.
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Re: Two Form 1’s in the design phase

Post by daviscustom »

I have always wanted a rotary table, but I think I will see if I can make due with the lathe for work holding. I’ll try to do the main face groove with the lathe and that should cut down on the work with the live tooling.

So you prefer the radiused transition into the waist vent? I am tempted to cut it at an angle from the front and then come back from the bottom if it is needed. Out of curiosity, why are you leaning the other way now?..... thought you were pushing the other direction.
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Re: Two Form 1’s in the design phase

Post by T-Rex »

No, I think you should do the single, angled plunge, from the front, and keep the inside rotation as an option. I don't think your double vent cut is going to do what you think.

Check out my build pictures and you'll see why you can do a lot w/o the rotary table.
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Re: Two Form 1’s in the design phase

Post by daviscustom »

Ok I just misunderstood which way you were recommending.

Thanks for your input.
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Re: Two Form 1’s in the design phase

Post by ECCO Machine »

daviscustom wrote:I have always wanted a rotary table, but I think I will see if I can make due with the lathe for work holding. I’ll try to do the main face groove with the lathe and that should cut down on the work with the live tooling.
Chatter-free trepan cuts are difficult even on large, heavy machines. I do all the proximal face work on K baffles using the rotary with ball nosed and radiused corner end mills.

I don't know what size machine you're running, but if it's a full size mill, don't sell yourself short on a rotary. Troyke DMT-12 compound is the way to go.
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Re: Two Form 1’s in the design phase

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ECCO Machine wrote:
daviscustom wrote:I have always wanted a rotary table, but I think I will see if I can make due with the lathe for work holding. I’ll try to do the main face groove with the lathe and that should cut down on the work with the live tooling.
Chatter-free trepan cuts are difficult even on large, heavy machines. I do all the proximal face work on K baffles using the rotary with ball nosed and radiused corner end mills.

I don't know what size machine you're running, but if it's a full size mill, don't sell yourself short on a rotary. Troyke DMT-12 compound is the way to go.

Yeah, I think it would turn out better with a lot less stress. A good friend is gonna help me out on that front. Don't know the model of milling machine, but we have a basically new full sized Bridgeport at work I can use. The rotary table in conjunction with the DRO on the mill will take a lot of the guesswork and eyeballing out of it. My little 11" Atlas is a LONG way from rigid....as is my live tooling for it. It works good for drilling small ports and cutting slots but it has to work pretty hard in stainless, so Ti might be an issue.

I found a complete Crux booster on Gunbroker for $120 and decided to give that a try instead of building one this time. I very well may port the piston and housing when I get it, but I will have to look it over first.
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Re: Two Form 1’s in the design phase

Post by daviscustom »

Already posted in the handgun section but not getting much action.... any specific threaded barrel brands you trust for suppressed Glock 19? Considering SilencerCo, but open to suggestion if anyone has a better idea.
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Re: Two Form 1’s in the design phase

Post by daviscustom »

The Crux booster arrived on Friday. They also included an extra piston for 45. I am pleased so far with the quality..... the housing is nitrided stainless.

https://imgur.com/a/a3NV3Ys

Just waiting on the tube at this point, and then I can get started.
Last edited by daviscustom on Sun Apr 28, 2019 9:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Two Form 1’s in the design phase

Post by T-Rex »

daviscustom wrote:Already posted in the handgun section but not getting much action.... any specific threaded barrel brands you trust for suppressed Glock 19? Considering SilencerCo, but open to suggestion if anyone has a better idea.
I've never had a problem w/ any Lone Wolf barrel I've owned.
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Re: Two Form 1’s in the design phase

Post by daviscustom »

T-Rex wrote:
daviscustom wrote:Already posted in the handgun section but not getting much action.... any specific threaded barrel brands you trust for suppressed Glock 19? Considering SilencerCo, but open to suggestion if anyone has a better idea.
I've never had a problem w/ any Lone Wolf barrel I've owned.

Yeah, Lone Wolf and SilencerCo seem to be the most popular mid range barrel options. So far it looks like I can get the SilencerCo cheaper.
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Re: Two Form 1’s in the design phase

Post by daviscustom »

The piston for 1/2-28 was noticeably heavier than the 45 piston so I went in and bored out the front 1” of the piston to the same sized bore as the 45.... that should allow a little expansion to make the blast baffle a bit more effective without adding more gap. Thinking about putting in a shallow unclipped cone in 17-4 for a blast baffle since I am thinking of using this for 300 blk subs as well.

Booster assembly before and after modding the 1/2-28 piston.

https://imgur.com/a/Tajk1wA
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Re: Two Form 1’s in the design phase

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Was going to order the SilencerCo barrel and then I found a deal on an Alphawolf for the same price..... decided to order one of them instead since they are made in the USA as well, and they don’t have SilencerCo’s logo all over the hood of the barrel
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Re: Two Form 1’s in the design phase

Post by daviscustom »

Considering materials for the rear cap on the 9mm can. Originally was going to do grade 5 Ti, but I am wondering if that is a bad idea (concerned about gauling). The booster is nitrided stainless so it should be ok, but wondering about when I screw in the 300 blackout taper mount (intending to make it out of 17-4) if it would be better to use a different material for the back cap? The threads can be greased but I am wondering about the taper sticking????
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