Form 1 .22 or 9mm solvent trap build ?

Yes, it can be legal to make a silencer. For everything Form-1, from silencer designs that are easily made, to filing forms with the BATF, to 3D modeling. Remember, you must have an approved BATF Form-1 to make a silencer. All NFA laws apply.

Moderators: mpallett, bakerjw

ajax5184
Member
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:18 am

Form 1 .22 or 9mm solvent trap build ?

Post by ajax5184 »

I was just curious if anyone has any experience with the kits form1builder or hawk innovative tech? Would these kits, either .22 or 9, get you anywhere close to commercial performance as is on a pistol?
User avatar
John A.
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 1145
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 2:55 pm

Re: Form 1 .22 or 9mm solvent trap build ?

Post by John A. »

In my humble opinion, no.

Plus, depending on what pistol you are wanting to suppress, you would also need to incorporate a booster/neilson device/decoupler for the firearm to function correctly as well.
I don't care what your chart says
ECCO Machine
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 633
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2017 5:34 pm

Re: Form 1 .22 or 9mm solvent trap build ?

Post by ECCO Machine »

Got links? Most of us won't be interested in searching the stuff out.

In general, the answer is no, ready-made "solvent trap" parts will not perform on par with properly designed commercial cans or custom made F1 builds.
FFL07/02SOT Gunsmith & Machinist
ajax5184
Member
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:18 am

Re: Form 1 .22 or 9mm solvent trap build ?

Post by ajax5184 »

ECCO Machine
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 633
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2017 5:34 pm

Re: Form 1 .22 or 9mm solvent trap build ?

Post by ECCO Machine »

Hard pass on the first one. ATF will be along to shut them down shortly for selling silencer parts anyway (drilled baffles).

The second kit would do OK, not great. Not enough baffles, too much volume. 1" x 5.5"-6" is ideal, definitely not less than 10 baffles if using cones.
FFL07/02SOT Gunsmith & Machinist
3strucking
Silent Operator
Posts: 99
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2016 7:37 pm

Re: Form 1 .22 or 9mm solvent trap build ?

Post by 3strucking »

do yourself a favor and buy a commercial made one. If you want to actually build one, spend time reading as much as you can here. There are members here who have the experience and skills to build a superb silencer who you can learn from.
ajax5184
Member
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:18 am

Re: Form 1 .22 or 9mm solvent trap build ?

Post by ajax5184 »

Thanks for the feedback guys. I guess I have some more reading to do!
ajax5184
Member
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:18 am

Re: Form 1 .22 or 9mm solvent trap build ?

Post by ajax5184 »

After looking at ecco’s reply I started looking around a little more to see about mixing and matching some pre made parts to get closer to his recommendation. What do you guys think about the following for a dedicated.22 can:

Tube- Diversified Machine aluminum 1.125” x 5.75”
Cones- 10-12 radials from totality industries (they dont have regular cones this size)

https://totalityindustries.com/shop?ols ... ell&page=2

Thanks
Adam
User avatar
John A.
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 1145
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 2:55 pm

Re: Form 1 .22 or 9mm solvent trap build ?

Post by John A. »

Can you fit 10-12 radial cones in a 5.75" tube?

If you can, yeah, that would probably sound really good on a 22LR
I don't care what your chart says
User avatar
T-Rex
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 1865
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2014 3:38 pm
Location: CT - The AntiConstitution State

Re: Form 1 .22 or 9mm solvent trap build ?

Post by T-Rex »

For a 22lr only can, I wouldn't hesitate on something like this. Cut the spacer so the first baffle is off the muzzle only about 1/8" and stick the other piece at the end.

I think people get too hung up on cleaning suppressors and so I wouldn't worry about the Al. Open it up, knock the crud off, and get back to it. Also, just rotate the baffles and the blast being Al isn't such a big deal.
Last edited by T-Rex on Sat Mar 09, 2019 2:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Completed Builds www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=79895
Burst Calculator www.engineersedge.com/calculators/pipe_bust_calc.htm
Silencer Porn www.instagram.com/explore/tags/silencerporn/
ajax5184
Member
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:18 am

Re: Form 1 .22 or 9mm solvent trap build ?

Post by ajax5184 »

John A. wrote:Can you fit 10-12 radial cones in a 5.75" tube?

If you can, yeah, that would probably sound really good on a 22LR

I think 10 would fit anyway, but they would all only be spaced about 1/4”. I cant find all the specs on the barrel though for usable ID. Guess I will email them.
ajax5184
Member
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:18 am

Re: Form 1 .22 or 9mm solvent trap build ?

Post by ajax5184 »

T-Rex wrote:For a 22lr only can, I wouldn't hesitate on something like this. Cut the spacer so the first baffle is off the muzzle only about 1/8" and stick the other piece at the end.

I think people get too hung up on cleaning suppressors and so I wouldn't worry about the Al. Open it up, knock the crud off, and get back to it. Also, just rotate the baffles and the blast being Al isn't such a big deal.
Could something like this get to sub 120 db you think?
User avatar
T-Rex
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 1865
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2014 3:38 pm
Location: CT - The AntiConstitution State

Re: Form 1 .22 or 9mm solvent trap build ?

Post by T-Rex »

ajax5184 wrote:Could something like this get to sub 120 db you think?
I couldn't honestly say, but it should yield promising results.
I'd prefer to have another baffle, I think it said 7.
Maybe the seller could amend the auction for another baffle, but you'd have to cut the skirts or possibly just 1 or 2 and keep the blast spacer uber short.

Do you have the capabilities to drill the baffles and clip the cones?
Completed Builds www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=79895
Burst Calculator www.engineersedge.com/calculators/pipe_bust_calc.htm
Silencer Porn www.instagram.com/explore/tags/silencerporn/
ECCO Machine
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 633
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2017 5:34 pm

Re: Form 1 .22 or 9mm solvent trap build ?

Post by ECCO Machine »

John A. wrote:Can you fit 10-12 radial cones in a 5.75" tube?

If you can, yeah, that would probably sound really good on a 22LR
My Ocelot has 12 cones in a 5.5" overall package.
ajax5184 wrote: Could something like this get to sub 120 db you think?
Yes. Ocelot meters 114.3 avg on a 16" rifle with American Eagle 45 gr. subs. TBAC Takedown .22 has 11 baffles, meters 114.1
FFL07/02SOT Gunsmith & Machinist
dynotime
New Member
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:25 pm

Re: Form 1 .22 or 9mm solvent trap build ?

Post by dynotime »

does not take much to Suppress a subsonic .22lr. using a Rifle.
ajax5184
Member
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:18 am

Re: Form 1 .22 or 9mm solvent trap build ?

Post by ajax5184 »

T-Rex wrote:
ajax5184 wrote:Could something like this get to sub 120 db you think?
I couldn't honestly say, but it should yield promising results.
I'd prefer to have another baffle, I think it said 7.
Maybe the seller could amend the auction for another baffle, but you'd have to cut the skirts or possibly just 1 or 2 and keep the blast spacer uber short.

Do you have the capabilities to drill the baffles and clip the cones?

I do have access to a drill press at work for the holes. I haven’t quite worked out yet how to clip the cones. I have a dremel if nothing else, but that seems like it would take a year. Guess I will cross that bridge when I get there. I wouldn’t have anything to cut cones shorter though. I mean of course I have griner with cutoff wheel I could cut them, but nothing to cut precisely enough for that purpose. I am Probably just going to go the route of piecing together from different companies instead of getting a full kit so I can just get exactly what I want. Then I will just have to worry about drilling and clipping. If you have any thoughts on how a guy could clip cones without having to use a dremnel I would be all ears! Lol!
ajax5184
Member
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:18 am

Re: Form 1 .22 or 9mm solvent trap build ?

Post by ajax5184 »

ECCO Machine wrote:
John A. wrote:Can you fit 10-12 radial cones in a 5.75" tube?

If you can, yeah, that would probably sound really good on a 22LR
My Ocelot has 12 cones in a 5.5" overall package.
ajax5184 wrote: Could something like this get to sub 120 db you think?
Yes. Ocelot meters 114.3 avg on a 16" rifle with American Eagle 45 gr. subs. TBAC Takedown .22 has 11 baffles, meters 114.1

Wow that is impressive, that is inline or better than the top of the line commercial stuff! So did you use radials in your builds? Is there any pictures/drawings of your build anywhere on here I could reference and use as a rough guide?
User avatar
John A.
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 1145
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 2:55 pm

Re: Form 1 .22 or 9mm solvent trap build ?

Post by John A. »

ECCO Machine wrote:
John A. wrote:Can you fit 10-12 radial cones in a 5.75" tube?

If you can, yeah, that would probably sound really good on a 22LR
My Ocelot has 12 cones in a 5.5" overall package.
I was asking about whether you could fit 10-12 solvent trap cups in there. I know baffles can be made to fit it, but those radial solvent cups look pretty long to space them out that short, at least how they come out of the box.
I don't care what your chart says
ajax5184
Member
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:18 am

Re: Form 1 .22 or 9mm solvent trap build ?

Post by ajax5184 »

John A. wrote:
ECCO Machine wrote:
John A. wrote:Can you fit 10-12 radial cones in a 5.75" tube?

If you can, yeah, that would probably sound really good on a 22LR
My Ocelot has 12 cones in a 5.5" overall package.
I was asking about whether you could fit 10-12 solvent trap cups in there. I know baffles can be made to fit it, but those radial solvent cups look pretty long to space them out that short, at least how they come out of the box.
So am i right in thinking the first come would add the total height of the cone with skirt which is .5”. Then additional cones would only add the height of the skirt plus the thickness of the material so .17?
ECCO Machine
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 633
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2017 5:34 pm

Re: Form 1 .22 or 9mm solvent trap build ?

Post by ECCO Machine »

dynotime wrote:does not take much to Suppress a subsonic .22lr. using a Rifle.
That depends on what level you want to get down to. Hearing safe is easy, .22 LR subs from a 16" gun are barely over 140 unsuppressed. Sub-120 dB, however, is a little more involved, especially to see those numbers from a handgun. Ocelot meters 121-123 first round on a pistol, and 119 avg. for subsequent. That's dry.
ajax5184 wrote: that is inline or better than the top of the line commercial stuff! So did you use radials in your builds? Is there any pictures/drawings of your build anywhere on here I could reference and use as a rough guide?
It is a commercial can, I'm just a very low volume manufacturer.

No, no radials. I've had better results with straight walled cones playing with the angle, the cone length/amount of shoulder at the base and the clip. All of my cans except Phoenix IX use straight walled cones.

I seem to have lost some photos, so no pics of new, clean production ones, but this is my demo model. It has a couple of blems on the tube features and the engraver got wiggly on me, which is why it became my demo. Seen a few hundred rounds since last cleaning, but that's immaterial to the purpose here. I have 3 variants; Ocelot, Ocelot M (modular, the one represented in the pics) and Ocelot Micro, a 3" long 6 baffle version. All of them are 1" OD Gr. 9 CWSR tubes. The standard and M are the same 5.5" length, but only the mount and first two baffles are stainless in the standard. It weighs 4.1 oz. Ocelot M is all heat treated 416 SS, weighs 5.4 oz. Micro has only a stainless blast baffle; the mount, front cap and the other 5 cones are anodized 7068-T6511 aluminum. It weighs 1.8 oz.

Image

Image

Image

Image
FFL07/02SOT Gunsmith & Machinist
ECCO Machine
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 633
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2017 5:34 pm

Re: Form 1 .22 or 9mm solvent trap build ?

Post by ECCO Machine »

John A. wrote:
I was asking about whether you could fit 10-12 solvent trap cups in there. I know baffles can be made to fit it, but those radial solvent cups look pretty long to space them out that short, at least how they come out of the box.
That's true, they may create more of a tunnel spaced that tightly with the profile they have. Also very thick walls and skirts for a rimfire application. Mine are .030" for both, .040" for the cone shoulder.
FFL07/02SOT Gunsmith & Machinist
dynotime
New Member
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:25 pm

Re: Form 1 .22 or 9mm solvent trap build ?

Post by dynotime »

What size holes are in the cones? They look Big, Do you sell your Suppressors? What is the cost

How long is the unit? What diameter? Thanks
dynotime
New Member
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:25 pm

Re: Form 1 .22 or 9mm solvent trap build ?

Post by dynotime »

Where do you guys measure the Sound? I think a standard distance and angle from the end of the Barrel or attachment would be a good start. Is there a Standard placement for the Meter.

If you know please post. I would guess At 90 degree from Exit and 24" to the right or left. Guessing.

Also everyone says More internal Volume makes for a Quieter Suppressor. And less pressure in the Suppressor and less back flow to the Firearm.

Any Toughs or Experience on this?

Thanks Guy's.
Last edited by dynotime on Sat Mar 09, 2019 10:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ECCO Machine
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 633
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2017 5:34 pm

Re: Form 1 .22 or 9mm solvent trap build ?

Post by ECCO Machine »

dynotime wrote:What size holes are in the cones? They look Big, Do you sell your Suppressors? What is the cost

How long is the unit? What diameter? Thanks
Apertures are .275".

Ocelot: 1" x 5.5", 4.1 oz, $329

Ocelot M: 1"x5.5", 5.4 oz, $399

Ocelot Micro: 1" x 3.0", 1.8 oz, $249
dynotime wrote:Where do you guys measure the Sound? I think a standard distance and angle from the end of the Barrel or attachment would be a good start. Is there a Standard placement for the Meter.

If you know please post. I would guess At 90 degree from Exit and 24" to the right or left. Guess Guessing.

Also everyone says More internal Volume makes for a Quieter Suppressor. And less pressure in the Suppressor and less back flow to the Firearm.

Any Toughs or Experience on this?

Thanks Guy's.
Mil std for the microphone position is inline with front of the can, 1 meter left, 1.6 meters off the ground. Shooter's ear numbers are taken at shooter's ear position (usually right handed shooter's right ear). I test with a Bruel & Kjaer 2209 meter and 4135 microphone.
FFL07/02SOT Gunsmith & Machinist
dynotime
New Member
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:25 pm

Re: Form 1 .22 or 9mm solvent trap build ?

Post by dynotime »

How much does the weather play? I live close to sea level. I do not have face book or any social anything on the computer except one or two forums.

I have not seen any Silencers go much lower than about 114 db for the .22lr subsonic. Is that what you have been seeing? I am looking for a Silence that will Reduce a 16 to 22" Rifle barrel as much as I can so I can shoot with out much noise leaving my property. And I like quite shooting.

Will larger Diameter Silencer work better than smaller Diameter ones and will longer work better than shorter units. I am bench rest shooting so Sound reduction is number one.

I read that internal Volume is key. So Will a 8" long x 1.25" dia less noisy than a 6"x1"

Do you have a web site?

Here is a Question Is a Silencer considered a Firearm Just like a Bare Stripped AR Lower.

How long does it take to purchase one of your units? Can I use E-file? Times are shorter from what I hear.

I was told about 9-10 months for the hard copy mail in. Sad to say I waited until I retired and have the time to enjoy. And now have to wait almost a year.

I hold a 07 FFL that is in my name. That only took 63 days to get. That is so funny.
Post Reply