Why no stepped cones from major manufacturers?

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Matt in TN
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Why no stepped cones from major manufacturers?

Post by Matt in TN » Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:01 am

I've searched until I'm cross-eyed, and from everything I've read and what I THINK I understand, stepped cones create more turbulence and improve suppression. Yet I see no stepped cones in any major manufacturer's designs. With the advent of CNC, surely it's not because of machining cost/complexity. Is it because of weight?

Or is it because stepped cones are not really an improvement? Help me understand...

ECCO Machine
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Re: Why no stepped cones from major manufacturers?

Post by ECCO Machine » Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:09 am

It's not as simple as them being better, worse or no improvement over other designs. As with every aspect of suppressors, it's the unique combination of features that make one perform better than another. It's akin to automobile engines; domed pistons, flat tops, dished-which one will work best depends on how it complements the combustion chamber design, port flow, fuel type, induction type, etc.

I have only one design which uses stepped cones, and they work well in that role. But they're only 2 of the 5 baffles in it, and there's a lot more going on in there. Yes, they are more disruptive to flow up the sides of the cone-which is not necessarily a good thing. Has to complement the other design features of the can.
FFL07/02SOT Gunsmith & Machinist

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Sergeant
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Re: Why no stepped cones from major manufacturers?

Post by Sergeant » Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:10 am

Which it's why it is so hard to answer the often asked question....which baffle is the best.

Matt in TN
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Re: Why no stepped cones from major manufacturers?

Post by Matt in TN » Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:20 am

ECCO Machine wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:09 am
Yes, they are more disruptive to flow up the sides of the cone-which is not necessarily a good thing. Has to complement the other design features of the can.
Can you elaborate more on this? How would it be a bad thing, and what kinds of other design features complement this design?

In my head, a straight cone would do just as well with a supersonic rifle, as the gases would act "straight" anyway and create a boundary layer over the stepped cone until they slow down. So maybe stepped cones would be better toward the muzzle end of the suppressor? And then of course - why not step the inside of the cone too in order to slow down the swirling gases between cones even more?

The only downside I can see that I'm having trouble quantifying is the stress concentration factor of all those sharp corners. Which would mean you'd have to make the cone wall thicker than a straight cone to compensate for it - which means more weight. And this is all assuming you can cut a perfect stepped cone with uniform wall thickness throughout, which would be do-able but would take some careful figuring and checking along the way for us manual machine people.

garredondojr
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Re: Why no stepped cones from major manufacturers?

Post by garredondojr » Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:13 pm

Image

Pretty sure he's talking about his five x five can. I'll let him elaborate the why as I have no clue. :D

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Capt. Link.
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Re: Why no stepped cones from major manufacturers?

Post by Capt. Link. » Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:24 am

I can think of several reasons why major manufactures don't use them.
Every baffle design has a sweet spot in performance.You could alter each sequential baffle in line to respond to decreasing pressures or use a series of baffles that work better at progressively lower pressure .This adds complexity in manufacturing and assembling. Kudos to ECCO for going the extra mile!
If memory serves me the step cone is a patent protected design and few businesses will pay fees they can avoid.The patent may have expired as I've been in the business a long time!
Bottom line is step baffles add considerable CNC time compared to cone type baffles.
Cone baffles are very versatile and responsive to differing pressures through altering angles ,base porting,clipping.It makes life simple and increases profit for the shop.

Hybrid suppressors can be very effective.A common one is the Cone K combination for the 300blk and others that range from sub to supersonic.Switching to step baffles (may) be a better choice in this particular hybrid.
As a amateur the bottom line is not important so using step cones or other exotic designs are far more feasible.You might wish to look up a build posted by Delta9MDA for a 300 Winchester Magnum-all step cones.

-CL
The only reason after 243 years the government now wants to disarm you is they intend to do something you would shoot them for!

3strucking
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Re: Why no stepped cones from major manufacturers?

Post by 3strucking » Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:48 pm

ECCO and Capt., have you tried the stepped cones on the 300 blackout? How did they perform with supers?

ARHunter
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Re: Why no stepped cones from major manufacturers?

Post by ARHunter » Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:38 pm

https://maverickprecision.com/product/6 ... pped-cone/

Here are some step cones ready to bore.

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