Turbocharger baffles
Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:47 am
I'm still looking at some different baffle designs for my 50bmg, and turbine fans popped up. They're a bit pricey, but it seems like a good idea. Anyone ever tried a design like that?
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Turbocharger baffles
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Re: Turbocharger baffles
Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:51 am
Yep, and it's been done to varying degrees by a number of outfits over the years. Doesn't work as well as conventional baffle designs. Supersonic gasses don't behave like you see in typical fluid dynamics.
Re: Turbocharger baffles
Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:59 am
I'm thinking it would be fairly easy to work them with hand tools and a drill press, and they're made of good steel, even the $30 ones. They'll at least work better than flat baffles like I was originally planning.
Re: Turbocharger baffles
Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 11:10 am
It would be helpful if you post a link so everyone knows what you're looking at.
Regardless, I'm confident you'll be happier with the performance of conical baffles.
Regardless, I'm confident you'll be happier with the performance of conical baffles.
Re: Turbocharger baffles
Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 11:22 am
https://images.app.goo.gl/MMaEATCtyy8XDJ139ECCO Machine wrote: ↑Fri Dec 06, 2019 11:10 am It would be helpful if you post a link so everyone knows what you're looking at.
Regardless, I'm confident you'll be happier with the performance of conical baffles.
I'm looking at something similar to this. I just gotta find the right size.
Re: Turbocharger baffles
Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:33 pm
I don't see how you expect this to perform beyond the abilities of the base structure, being a radial baffle.
As I'm sure you're aware, those fins would be rotated, at high rpm, to compress a gas and force it into a tunnel. This is exactly the opposite of what you're trying to accomplish with a suppressor. You want to decompress the gas and increase it's dwell time, from exit.
I'm not in the mood to pull up patents, but do some searching and you'll find designs with similar features.
As I'm sure you're aware, those fins would be rotated, at high rpm, to compress a gas and force it into a tunnel. This is exactly the opposite of what you're trying to accomplish with a suppressor. You want to decompress the gas and increase it's dwell time, from exit.
I'm not in the mood to pull up patents, but do some searching and you'll find designs with similar features.
Re: Turbocharger baffles
Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 4:55 pm
I don't plan on using them as is. I figure the fins would help create turbulence and hold the gas in the tube. I may drill holes between the fins and face the flat side toward the muzzle so the gas is directed to the tube wall.T-Rex wrote: ↑Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:33 pm I don't see how you expect this to perform beyond the abilities of the base structure, being a radial baffle.
As I'm sure you're aware, those fins would be rotated, at high rpm, to compress a gas and force it into a tunnel. This is exactly the opposite of what you're trying to accomplish with a suppressor. You want to decompress the gas and increase it's dwell time, from exit.
I'm not in the mood to pull up patents, but do some searching and you'll find designs with similar features.
Re: Turbocharger baffles
Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 5:15 pm
You can buy the solvent cones and cups for ~$20/ea. I'm not sure those turbines are going to be as cheap or that they'll perform any where near what you're envisioning, with or without holes drilled in them. I don't see those blades forcing the gas to the outer wall anymore than a cone feature or keeping it there. Gas doesn't act like a liquid, in this regard.
You really want to give them a shot, go for it. Personally, I'd stick to the traditional baffle styles.
You really want to give them a shot, go for it. Personally, I'd stick to the traditional baffle styles.
Re: Turbocharger baffles
Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 6:18 pm
T-Rex wrote: ↑Fri Dec 06, 2019 5:15 pm You can buy the solvent cones and cups for ~$20/ea. I'm not sure those turbines are going to be as cheap or that they'll perform any where near what you're envisioning, with or without holes drilled in them. I don't see those blades forcing the gas to the outer wall anymore than a cone feature or keeping it there. Gas doesn't act like a liquid, in this regard.
You really want to give them a shot, go for it. Personally, I'd stick to the traditional baffle styles.
I did look at solvent cones, but I was told they're not good for 50bmg. I'm not expecting crazy good performance, just better than flat baffles.
Re: Turbocharger baffles
Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 3:06 pm
These turbo baffles feature a long throat and that tends to make bullets wobble.Baffles should strip gases from the bore line and not line them up for the next bore hole for maximum suppression.Disruption of gases in non symmetrical ways helps retention of these gases.
Cones with some porting is probably the best baffle choice.You also have the choice of a large number of asymmetric designs and lastly flat baffles.You could also build a hybrid design featuring a combination of the above.
When Jimmy built his 50 using flat baffles suppression and accuracy was good from his field reports.He spaced them out and used few unlike the old school method of close spacing using many.The bad reputation of flat baffles is mostly because better designs have evolved as has our understanding of suppression science.
Clipped and or ported cones are possibly one of the best options today.I would call these asymmetric hybrids unlike regular straight cone or frustoconical symmetric ones.I'm rating this on ease of building,strength,weight and lastly performance.
I would love to see you build this as would others.
-CL
Cones with some porting is probably the best baffle choice.You also have the choice of a large number of asymmetric designs and lastly flat baffles.You could also build a hybrid design featuring a combination of the above.
When Jimmy built his 50 using flat baffles suppression and accuracy was good from his field reports.He spaced them out and used few unlike the old school method of close spacing using many.The bad reputation of flat baffles is mostly because better designs have evolved as has our understanding of suppression science.
Clipped and or ported cones are possibly one of the best options today.I would call these asymmetric hybrids unlike regular straight cone or frustoconical symmetric ones.I'm rating this on ease of building,strength,weight and lastly performance.
I would love to see you build this as would others.
-CL
Re: Turbocharger baffles
Posted: Sun Dec 22, 2019 3:37 am
I made buffles as shown in my video. https://youtu.be/O-FHOPtOKp0
in fact, the gas flow rate on the turbine blades is close to subsonic because the silencer’s inside is a different gas environment than in the atmosphere and the speed of sound is different. the reason is that such solutions do not give a real advantage in that after the gases have moved away from the bullet channel they do not make a significant contribution to noise reduction. on the other hand, turbine blades are metal with their own weight. which means the suppressor will be heavier. I use such turbines only as an explosive baffle since the turbine blades are stiffeners, this adds strength.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ei6c6yli4s8v ... kPr_a?dl=0
in fact, the gas flow rate on the turbine blades is close to subsonic because the silencer’s inside is a different gas environment than in the atmosphere and the speed of sound is different. the reason is that such solutions do not give a real advantage in that after the gases have moved away from the bullet channel they do not make a significant contribution to noise reduction. on the other hand, turbine blades are metal with their own weight. which means the suppressor will be heavier. I use such turbines only as an explosive baffle since the turbine blades are stiffeners, this adds strength.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ei6c6yli4s8v ... kPr_a?dl=0
Re: Turbocharger baffles
Posted: Tue Dec 24, 2019 9:27 pm
I might still use a turbine for the blast baffle, but right now I'm looking at 17-4. I'm considering MAC10 style design, with a larger diameter blast chamber at least 3" in diameter, and then using large stainless coned freeze plugs at least 1.75" diameter. There's a good possibility I'll abandon the reflex design cuz it's just gonna cost to much and be too complicated. I think this is the best option I have that I can competently make. Since I don't have a lathe yet, I'm designing based on premade parts I can get. If I happen to get a lathe before my stamp, I'll just make everything.
Re: Turbocharger baffles
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:14 pm
In fact, I proposed this idea 6 years ago: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=123367
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6657862.pdf
It's funny at how many of the Ideas that I came up with, so many years ago, are now in common commercial use.....
Radial Frustocones, Finned Blast chambers, maximal quenching surface (like helical spirals,) etc.
Thanks to all who very kindly helped by adding their acquired lifetime of experience.
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6657862.pdf
It's funny at how many of the Ideas that I came up with, so many years ago, are now in common commercial use.....
Radial Frustocones, Finned Blast chambers, maximal quenching surface (like helical spirals,) etc.
Thanks to all who very kindly helped by adding their acquired lifetime of experience.
Re: Turbocharger baffles
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:30 pm
The main idea that I posted here 6 years ago, was that the finned surface, inside of the blast chamber, would provide EXCELLENT surface area upon which to smear ablative lithium soap. Thus acting as a heat sink which would sublimate into the escaping exhaust gasses.Hamond wrote: ↑Sun Dec 22, 2019 3:37 am I made buffles as shown in my video. https://youtu.be/O-FHOPtOKp0
in fact, the gas flow rate on the turbine blades is close to subsonic because the silencer’s inside is a different gas environment than in the atmosphere and the speed of sound is different... I use such turbines only as an explosive baffle since the turbine blades are stiffeners, this adds strength.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ei6c6yli4s8v ... kPr_a?dl=0
I planned that the turbine blades would act as Stators to direct the gas backward along the outside of the barrel into a Reflex Sump. Then delay the release of the heat/volume until after the peak discharge rate had passed. The US Army tested that this would give a -6dB reduction to peak sound. So it would sound 4xs quieter, to the human ear downrange.
Hopefully you will include this Stator Blast Device within your blast chamber. I never ended up making mine. I'd love to hear how it works for you.
The element that I like best about the Reflex Sump design on Rifles, is that it adds slightly more volume, without lengthening the OAL of the weapon system. A big plus for both Center of Gravity, and Radial Momentum when swinging muzzle to separate targets downrange.
Best of Luck, Zero99z
Re: Turbocharger baffles
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:34 pm
Hamond, ты русский тоже? Здраст, брат мой!Hamond wrote: ↑Sun Dec 22, 2019 3:37 am M30S_нестационарный
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ei6c6yli4s8v ... kPr_a?dl=0
Re: Turbocharger baffles
Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 8:43 am
My design is mostly set, but I'm still playing around with the blast chamber. I ended up adding a defuser tube that'll be around the brake in the blast chamber, but I'm still working out how to interface it with the blast baffle. Actually seeing how the gas moves provides a lot better info.whiterussian1974 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:30 pmThe main idea that I posted here 6 years ago, was that the finned surface, inside of the blast chamber, would provide EXCELLENT surface area upon which to smear ablative lithium soap. Thus acting as a heat sink which would sublimate into the escaping exhaust gasses.Hamond wrote: ↑Sun Dec 22, 2019 3:37 am I made buffles as shown in my video. https://youtu.be/O-FHOPtOKp0
in fact, the gas flow rate on the turbine blades is close to subsonic because the silencer’s inside is a different gas environment than in the atmosphere and the speed of sound is different... I use such turbines only as an explosive baffle since the turbine blades are stiffeners, this adds strength.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ei6c6yli4s8v ... kPr_a?dl=0
I planned that the turbine blades would act as Stators to direct the gas backward along the outside of the barrel into a Reflex Sump. Then delay the release of the heat/volume until after the peak discharge rate had passed. The US Army tested that this would give a -6dB reduction to peak sound. So it would sound 4xs quieter, to the human ear downrange.
Hopefully you will include this Stator Blast Device within your blast chamber. I never ended up making mine. I'd love to hear how it works for you.
The element that I like best about the Reflex Sump design on Rifles, is that it adds slightly more volume, without lengthening the OAL of the weapon system. A big plus for both Center of Gravity, and Radial Momentum when swinging muzzle to separate targets downrange.
Best of Luck, Zero99z
Re: Turbocharger baffles
Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 1:06 pm
After revisiting the turbo baffle, I had an idea. For those of you familiar with SDTA, would a scaled up version of the challenge coin work for 50 BMG? For those of you not familiar,
https://images.app.goo.gl/BHxFY4zg9oWcj5Vf8
https://images.app.goo.gl/BHxFY4zg9oWcj5Vf8
Re: Turbocharger baffles
Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 7:34 pm
Lol no
Re: Turbocharger baffles
Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:11 pm
Re: Turbocharger baffles
Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:52 am
What function would you hope that they accomplish?
The openings are too large to restrict flow from returning out of any chamber, yet any material blocks the initial gas sump.
They don't have sufficient quenching qualities to add in cooling the combusting gasses.
Converting Axial flow, into mechanical work causing spin causes MORE sound (in the form of vibration and friction.)
Basically, you've taken a somewhat decent idea of using a finned surface to accomplish several minimally beneficial operations, into a COUNTER-Productive operation.
Re: Turbocharger baffles
Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:56 am
As I understand, those "Chalenge coins" are designed to function as a "poor man's K" by placing them before the cups/cones that they sell.
Re: Turbocharger baffles
Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 3:01 am
Дякую богові, та завдяки пращурам я не росіянин.whiterussian1974 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:34 pmHamond, ты русский тоже? Здраст, брат мой!Hamond wrote: ↑Sun Dec 22, 2019 3:37 am M30S_нестационарный
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ei6c6yli4s8v ... kPr_a?dl=0
Re: Turbocharger baffles
Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:23 am
Sounds like the worst of both worlds.whiterussian1974 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:56 am As I understand, those "Chalenge coins" are designed to function as a "poor man's K" by placing them before the cups/cones that they sell.
Re: Turbocharger baffles
Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:32 pm
Agreed.fishman wrote: ↑Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:23 amSounds like the worst of both worlds.whiterussian1974 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:56 am As I understand, those "Chalenge coins" are designed to function as a "poor man's K" by placing them before the cups/cones that they sell.
Re: Turbocharger baffles
Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:46 pm