Wire EDM New 'Lathe' For Intricate Suppressor Parts

Yes, it can be legal to make a silencer. For everything Form-1, from silencer designs that are easily made, to filing forms with the BATF, to 3D modeling. Remember, you must have an approved BATF Form-1 to make a silencer. All NFA laws apply.

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Historian
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Wire EDM New 'Lathe' For Intricate Suppressor Parts

Post by Historian »

<< https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBueWfzb7P0 >>

<< https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfNPkqDOqd4 >>


This weekend a family member who has just completed a MS degree
in Mechanical Engineering told me about his advances in Wire EDM. Among
the various YouTubes the above exposition had in it
an intricate circular part that would be intriguing
for use in machining experimental complex baffle designs.

Like 3D printing having become cheaper as the years progressed
would it not be wonderful to eventually have a cheap home model that
would allow the upgrade to an Atlas 618 lathe. :)

One can dream, no!
3strucking
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Re: Wire EDM New 'Lathe' For Intricate Suppressor Parts

Post by 3strucking »

I think there are two types of wire EDM. Is one type called a sinker and the other pull through? Would one type be more favorable to the home shop machinist?
Historian
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Re: Wire EDM New 'Lathe' For Intricate Suppressor Parts

Post by Historian »

Under the aegis of 'mythic thinking' bestowed on me
by over 3/4th of a century, for home use I envision the availability of
EDM single wire and pull-through.This would give the ability to reify
fanciful sketches of baffles 'waffle sandwiches' of circular mazes.
The first example can be seen in the YouTube showing the example of
the complex 'fractal maze' threading die slice.

There is correlation with the increase in total surface area
and a corresponding increase in energy dissipation leading to
lowering sound at muzzle

The 'increase in surface-area/pathway principle was instantiated
first with the Maximum Silencer baffles.

Or said simply in an old Southie 1940s saying " ...the more alleys to run through the harder
it is to be caught." :)

It would be most interesting if some of our esteemed silencer makers,
for instance the creative Balkan genius Mike P., to supply a stainless
steel billet to EDM company to produce a ' circular fractal maze' pattern
and then have them slice it axially into 10 to 20 thin 'spacers'; put this into a 1.25" titanium
tube of 9.5" and test this can starting with a .22 rimfire (e.g., S&W 41 :) ).

From intuition born from viewing the great PTK .22 'pellet-gun-quiet' suppressor on YouTube,
the new 'flow-through' suppressor designs, and anechoic experimentations
in the 1960s one may infer that the next generation leap in suppressor
sound reduction could be achieved. Light exotic metals could be experimented
with.

The complex 'fractal paths' still would be easy to clean in standard way.

Long winded answer to your question. But a small $500-900 EDM
would relegate the venerable Atlas 618 into the corner to collect dust.


Best.
TKGN1
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Re: Wire EDM New 'Lathe' For Intricate Suppressor Parts

Post by TKGN1 »

3strucking wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:45 am I think there are two types of wire EDM. Is one type called a sinker and the other pull through? Would one type be more favorable to the home shop machinist?
There are three types of common EDMs.
Here's a quick run down without getting too technical
1: Wire EDM, which does use a .010" copper wire to cut/burn. It feeds from a spool on one side and is pulled through from the other. Commonly used in the die making process for cutting both punch and die at same time. Even some mag wells on ARs are cut with a wire EDM.
2: Small hole EDM (hole bopper as some call it) This uses a a small brass or copper wire/tube to drill/burn holes from very small holes, such as .05mm/.002" on up to 6mm /.250". Uses for this machine is for obvious small hole drilling such as injector tips on diesels, to burning taps out, to drilling the holes in plate so the wire can be passed through for preparation on a wire EDM.
3: Sinker EDMs basically use a designed shape to burn into the host material. For example, it you needed a square hole cut into a part you can machine a true squared cornered electrode to burn that shape. A blind key way is another example.

Up front costs of an EDM as well as how slow they are would most likely not be favorable for a home shop machinist IMO. But, they are useful for niche jobs that you cannot do with conventional machines and could be used for making some pretty interesting suppressor parts. HTH
Historian
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Re: Wire EDM New 'Lathe' For Intricate Suppressor Parts

Post by Historian »

TKGN1, thank you for the clear and succinct explanation that
even geriatric mathematical physicists can grasp!

You mention that "... mag wells on ARs are cut with a wire EDM. "
Do you know the longevity of the Aluminum frames given
that Aluminum will fracture with age as contrasted with the
complete steel S&W 41 remaining in perpetual perfection since 1965, also
same era PPKs, etc..

Example, my C96 Broomhandle Mauser*, after over 124 years, still fires
safely and flawlessly each New Years Morning in celebration of its, and my,
longevity.

In your experience what is the 'fracture half-life' of
an aluminum frame or even worse the plastic-elastic frames in
modern small arms.


Best.

* e.g., << https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaaN5IWM2WA >>
speed6
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Re: Wire EDM New 'Lathe' For Intricate Suppressor Parts

Post by speed6 »

To my knowledge Aluminum does not age-harden at room temperature and fracture after a certain time like you are describing. Like stainless steel it is subject to intergranular corrosion, but AL lowers are typically anodized, preventing exposure to electrolytes. Aluminum does not have the same resistance to fatigue as steel, which has an--for applications we are talking about--endurance limit, where when stress is low enough it essentially does not exhibit fatigue failure.

If aluminum does age-harden at room temp I would definitely like to know about it. Since there are many WWII aircraft with aluminum skins and structural components I would say it lasts at least 75 years without hardening beyond usefulness even in applications with large deflections like aircraft structures.
Historian
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Re: Wire EDM New 'Lathe' For Intricate Suppressor Parts

Post by Historian »

Speed6, thank you for your information. It made me curious so in searching the
literature, old habits never die, I found a most informative article that might
be of interest to some:

<< https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/en ... ack-growth >>

Best.
0101silent
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Location: Ohio

Re: Wire EDM New 'Lathe' For Intricate Suppressor Parts

Post by 0101silent »

Thank you Historian for bringing up this topic. It looks like it wouldn't be too difficult or expensive to machine electrically.

This looks like a converting 3D printer which is a relatively easy machine to control.
https://youtu.be/kRc1NFO8uwo
https://youtu.be/cyHXCrmUOZY
ECM looks very useful also.
https://youtu.be/eQ8-Z7fYIB8
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