Baffle Clip Advice requested

Yes, it can be legal to make a silencer. For everything Form-1, from silencer designs that are easily made, to filing forms with the BATF, to 3D modeling. Remember, you must have an approved BATF Form-1 to make a silencer. All NFA laws apply.

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Kernt
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Baffle Clip Advice requested

Post by Kernt »

I've read conflicting advice to this question and I hope to receive the current state of the art thinking:
Generally, I'm looking to build a Form-1, 9mm can with cone-shaped baffles. Should I make a single clip on the baffle or also add a secondary clip 180 degrees to the first?

Secondly, and generally, should the baffle clips be aligned in the can or offset by some degree? I'm thinking of a 4-baffle design with a single clip alternating at 0, 90, 180, and 270 degrees. Your thoughts are requested...

Thanks in advance,

Thomas
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whiterussian1974
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Re: Baffle Clip Advice requested

Post by whiterussian1974 »

Most people believe that symmetrical (2) 180* clips. The orientation of each baffle to the next is irrelevant, as each baffle has symmetrical gas flow.

Hopefully others will weigh in as well.

Since you are using 9mm, you might want to explore K's. They perform better for subsonics. But are also more difficult to make. Radials are another option if you want to keep it simple.
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a_canadian
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Re: Baffle Clip Advice requested

Post by a_canadian »

whiterussian1974's suggestions seem spot on. I'll add that 4 cones in a suppressor for a 9mm gun of some sort is not likely to result in a decibel reduction you will find very useful. Seems from what commercial suppressors do and what a lot of successful form 1 makers besides, between 6 and 10 cones is likely to be far more effective in making the gun hearing safe. Of course if your objective is just to scrub a small amount of noise off the top of the blast, not make it very quiet at all, 4 cones will do that. I've found 10 to 12 cones in 7" of baffle tube with a 1.375" ID and thin walled tubular spacers to yield quite decently quiet results, using the pair of opposing clips approach.
Sgt.Mike
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Re: Baffle Clip Advice requested

Post by Sgt.Mike »

ok this is based on factory made baffle system user serviceable. not home built
my can (9mm) is using 4 baffle (cone) spaced .750" apart... wished it had 8 and baffle spaced closer.
this may or may not help for your question

it is no where near as effective as the .45 cal can with 8 baffle on same host
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a_canadian
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Re: Baffle Clip Advice requested

Post by a_canadian »

Fair enough. If adding baffles, modifying your current suppressor yourself or having a re-core done by someone competent isn't an option for you, then I'd go with symmetrical clips and rotating 90 degrees between each. I've found the 90 degree alternating orientation to be effective in 9mm cans anyway.
ECCO Machine
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Re: Baffle Clip Advice requested

Post by ECCO Machine »

For subsonic/low pressure stuff, double radiused clips ~40% of aperture diameter with depth slightly less than or equal to clip width.

For high velocity applications, single radiused clip ~ 50% of aperture diameter and depth 100-120% of width.

Always aligned, whether single or double. I wouldn't waste time making indexing features on baffles if it didn't matter. It matters.
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Sgt.Mike
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Re: Baffle Clip Advice requested

Post by Sgt.Mike »

My earlier post was off topic in a majority of my information.. i aploogize

Ecco and others seem to be on target.
But going back to the two cans that I referanced one other point is that the 45 can (YHM Wraith) is clipped the 9mm nope. looking through the YHM can I can see that the clips are aligned. As the YHM Wraith is sealed so i really cant take measurements of the baffles.

again sorry about the topic drift
Don't push a man to violence when violence is what he has dedicated his life to perfecting. Many walk this earth as silent killers. Careful who you try to victimize. They may welcome the chaos.
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whiterussian1974
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Re: Baffle Clip Advice requested

Post by whiterussian1974 »

Sgt.Mike wrote: Sat Jan 02, 2021 1:42 pm My earlier post was off topic in a majority of my information.. i aploogize

...the 45 can (YHM Wraith) is clipped the 9mm nope. looking through the YHM can I can see that the clips are aligned. As the YHM Wraith is sealed so i really cant take measurements of the baffles.

again sorry about the topic drift
It's always good to show humility by apologizing. But we are all trying to discover design improvements, so topic drift is normally fine.

Your info actually would fit well into another Thread. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=158900

I won't copy it there. But the info would have fit nicely.

You say that the 9mm has NO asymmetrical orifice features? And it is a cone type? That is HORRIBLE!!!!

9mm needs a LOT of help with diverting gases. Normally Ks are used, or Omega, etc. But a lack of simple mouth clipping is unforgivable. Who is the MNFR? Do you have pics?
The Darkest Corners of Hell are reserved for those who remain Neutral!-Dante
The Death of One is a Tragedy, a million only a statistic.-Stalin
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Sgt.Mike
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Re: Baffle Clip Advice requested

Post by Sgt.Mike »

whiterussian1974 wrote: Sat Jan 02, 2021 3:15 pm
Sgt.Mike wrote: Sat Jan 02, 2021 1:42 pm My earlier post was off topic in a majority of my information.. i aploogize

...the 45 can (YHM Wraith) is clipped the 9mm nope. looking through the YHM can I can see that the clips are aligned. As the YHM Wraith is sealed so i really cant take measurements of the baffles.

again sorry about the topic drift
It's always good to show humility by apologizing. But we are all trying to discover design improvements, so topic drift is normally fine.

Your info actually would fit well into another Thread. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=158900

I won't copy it there. But the info would have fit nicely.

You say that the 9mm has NO asymmetrical orifice features? And it is a cone type? That is HORRIBLE!!!!

9mm needs a LOT of help with diverting gases. Normally Ks are used, or Omega, etc. But a lack of simple mouth clipping is unforgivable. Who is the MNFR? Do you have pics?



YES ...

but then it is a COTS (commerical off the shelf) .. from a defunct manufactuer the infamous Huntertown Arms Krestel 9 .....
It has been a invaluable can that has taught me quite a bit.

there is no free lunch ,,, ya get what you pay for,,,,, etc,,,,etc

but in my opinion it is not a waste of a tax stamp why???
1. I bought it because of Price point and it is user sevicable for shooting cast loads.
2. I learned what a medicore design is ..... and dont repeat it
3. I'm gleaning a bit of knowledage from those posting here of what i can do to impove its less desirable attributes.

The other Two have been flawless but are of sealed design so no cast diet for them.
1. YHM Wraith in 45 cal
2. Blackhawk Gas Can 7.62 ( aka Silencerco Omega 300, i think NDA prevents them from admitting it)

i'll explore HOW to post pictures that will not be unhosted etc I hate when a site removes the pictures...
I've scanned google to see if I could find baffle pictures of that can. The closest I could find is this stock photo of a related can the Krestel 5.56 the numbers of baffle/cones is correct in this image :

Image


spacing (skirt length) appears to be 0.750" between the cones (length 1.545" of each cone mouth to end of skirt, Cone OD 1.330" , Baffle ID for bullet to pass through 0.395") for three cones (baffles) with a final cut down to a 0.900" length again mouth to end of skirt for the fourth cone/baffle. Hopefully this will serve as a not what to do.
Don't push a man to violence when violence is what he has dedicated his life to perfecting. Many walk this earth as silent killers. Careful who you try to victimize. They may welcome the chaos.
Kernt
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Re: Baffle Clip Advice requested

Post by Kernt »

Thanks for the feedback everyone. Based on your advice, it's back to the design stage and I'll keep my B-tube but make it longer and it will house a larger number of baffles and they will be "K".

-Thomas
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