Staggered chamber monolithic core (Update on page 4!)

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Mageever
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Staggered chamber monolithic core (Update on page 4!)

Post by Mageever »

I was really digging the staggered hole monolithic core idea when it was being discussed so I started to design one back then (thanks Baffled and Conqueror for the inspiration). I already had my Form 1 and was waiting for time in the shop, which finally has happened!

I wanted to make it as small as possible and was hoping to keep it under 6". I ended up about .125" over that and kept the diameter at 1". Since I was really compressing the design, I didn't want to lose internal space because of an overly thick tube, so I decided to get a thinwall tubing made of titanium that could be held on by the end cap without threading. The tubing has a .035 wall and is grade 9 (3AL/2.5V).

Now I just need figure out where to put the ports to the secondary chambers!


For the "Model" on my Fom 1, I should have put "Lumpy". The right side threads onto the barrel.

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The end cap threads into the core and acts as a final chamber while capturing the tube against the core.

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To give you an idea of the scale, the .600" diameter chambers were as large as I could go and keep the length down and the holes staggered inside of 1". The core is just so much smaller than I pictured it would be.

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Here's how the chambers "fill out" in the tube.

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Take it from me, 1/8" end mills don't plunge cut very well :wink:

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Luckily, I did the SBR paperwork at the same time as the Form 1! This is a 5" Kuehl Precision barrel.

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Last edited by Mageever on Mon Aug 18, 2008 11:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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jimmym40a2
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Post by jimmym40a2 »

That is really cool. thanks for posting. how does it sound? what is the grove by the penny? is that for a o ring?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEZJ_C4LwzA
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Post by Mageever »

I just barely deburred it so I haven't had a chance to try it out yet. I have a P22 I can try it out on otherwise it would kill me to have it done and not have the SBR upper built yet. I'm curious to repeat Baffleds experiment where he test fired it, then finished drilling the holes to see how much it affects it.
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jimmym40a2
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Post by jimmym40a2 »

That is a kickin design. Do you think it would work for a 50 can?
Last edited by jimmym40a2 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 4:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEZJ_C4LwzA
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Post by rjs1000 »

really nice.
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Post by Conqueror »

That's a hot little core. I was about to ask if you had an EDM, but that comment about plunging with a small endmill answered that pretty well. :P . Have you drilled any of the "mouseholes" yet? What design are you using for them?
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mac man
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Post by mac man »

Great craftsmanship!Is it as quiet as it looks?Love to see a video!
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Post by 3101 »

I really like the design..well done and you outta be proud of it....
now we want to hear it.... :shock:
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Post by jamis »

thats awsome work, congrats
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#93
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Post by #93 »

Very nice work! I think your core has more internal volume than any of the other staggered hole cores I have seen.

Is the core made of aluminum?

This is one of the higher tech F1 cans I have seen with the Ti tube that does not need to be threaded the end cap is very well thought out and the mono-core bad ass. What are the scallops for?
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Post by John A. »

Tmag, if I'm remembering correctly, one of the other guys was looking at the inside of the baffle after shooting a few times and found a powder residual trail. If you could do the same, that would seem to take a lot of the guesswork out of it as to where a good place for the mouse holes should be :?:

And that is a sweet looking stack.
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Post by Mageever »

Thanks for all the positive remarks everyone--I really appreciate it. This has been a really fun project. I'll try to get some video up, but I'll have to figure out how to do it first.
#93 wrote:Very nice work! I think your core has more internal volume than any of the other staggered hole cores I have seen.

Is the core made of aluminum?

This is one of the higher tech F1 cans I have seen with the Ti tube that does not need to be threaded the end cap is very well thought out and the mono-core bad ass. What are the scallops for?
Yep, it's aluminum. I don't get to machine things too often, so I wanted to try this out on aluminum first to see how easily I could bore through it and how well it hold in the jaws of the mill. The scallops are from me trying to get as much material out as I could. I had a couple of different drawings, one with a 1/4" end mill tool path to hog out as much material as I could, and then a 1/8" to to keep eating into it to get out every nook and crany. I also figured it would help slow down and hold the gases in the secondary chambers. Well...and it looks cool. ETA: it did add a lot extra time to do it, so I'm not sure if I'd ever do it again.

John, I'm not sure if I'll have time to test a couple of rounds through it, but I think I've decided on the mousehole above the bore hole on the exit wall of the chamber (like Baffled's). The reason is because these chambers are smaller and the overall core diameter is smaller, so the configuration may be less effective. I think that by having the hole there it will help coax the gasses upward from the bullet path. My other thought is that onces it pressurizes and it begins to equalize with the main chamber, it will flow backward into the main chamber. Who knows, maybe it will help slow things down more. :?:
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Post by JohnnyO »

Very Nice!
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Post by paco ramirez »

For a .50BMG, Conquerer's mouseholes should work quite well, and it would be even better if the secondary chambers were bigger for a .50BMG. I'll draw one up and send the model to you if you want.
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Post by jreinke »

Absolutely fantastic job on machining your core! :D Lucky you did it in aluminum, you'd have to mortgage your house to buy enough 1/8" end mills to cut thoses grooves in stainless. :lol:
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Post by 3101 »

paco ramirez wrote:For a .50BMG, Conquerer's mouseholes should work quite well, and it would be even better if the secondary chambers were bigger for a .50BMG. I'll draw one up and send the model to you if you want.
get your ass back to school and quit playing on the internet Paco!!!!
you aren't gonna amount to anything sitting here drawing things all day 8)
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Post by Mageever »

jreinke wrote:Absolutely fantastic job on machining your core! :D Lucky you did it in aluminum, you'd have to mortgage your house to buy enough 1/8" end mills to cut thoses grooves in stainless. :lol:
Thanks! Yeah, I broke a few of those on my "trial" core I did a while back to test if the soft jaws would hold it. It didn't have a bore hole and I wanted to see if round stock could be held by a couple of contact points. I only broke one this time!

I've been working at a friends shop that's not always available, so as soon as I have the mouseholes done I'll post some results. I remembered my little Kodak easy share camera can do video, so I'll take some vids as soon as I can.
Last edited by Mageever on Thu Jun 05, 2008 5:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by pmercer »

I really like this design. You say you don't have time to do the test as pointed out by john, but you've put so much effort into it, it would be a shame to skimp on the finishing line. I'm sure the marking of the core and a quick visit to the range to decide where to drill the additional holes could be very worthwhile.

Again, excellent work.
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Post by paco ramirez »

Here's the .50BMG can I modeled for Jimmy (sorry about the large pics):






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Image
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Post by Machine Gun Matt »

Paco,

You do great work brother!!

Question how are designing the attachment for the tube?

Fantastic, everything you produce is top notch.

Matt
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Post by jimmym40a2 »

Thanks Paco :lol: :lol: :lol:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEZJ_C4LwzA
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Post by paco ramirez »

Thanks :D

It just gets welded in the front, and where the tube and the core meet in the rear. Just like the way most new AAC cans are welded. Here is a close up depicting the front weld bead:






Image





No problem, Jimmy....
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Post by Baffled »

TMag, that is an ass-kicker! Exceptionally nice work. I know it's a .22 and there isn't that much blast, but you may want to sleeve chamber #1 with a thin stainless steel ring. The wall on chamber 1 opposite the barrel muzzle takes a pretty good hit, with high speed particulates and unburned powder, carbon, and crud, getting thrown at it. Maybe the aluminum would last forever there, but I was worried about erosion.

When I added the steel ring to mine, rather than try to do a perfect job lining up two bore holes with the existing ones, I overbored them by maybe 0.020" to ensure when installed (it is secured by a roll pin) that the ring would not enter the bullet's path.

I really like the scalloped chambers, and would have to agree, the use of volume is the best I've seen with a home mono core.

Maybe I missed it, what is the clearance between core and tube wall?
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Post by Mageever »

Thanks Baffled!

I've got .010" clearance betweent the core and the tube. Other stats: main chambers are .600", with .060" walls between. The wall thickness between them and the outer edge of the core is also .060". This ends up giving you an offset from centerline of .100". The wall thickness of the main chambers to the secondary chambers is .050". Mouseholes were .200" dia.

I didn't really plan on the steel sleeve like you did, thinking this will be a low volume shooter but I wish I had now after seeing how much gunk is blasted through this thing.

Which leads me to another thing. I was able to run a couple of shots through it before drilling the holes to the secondary chambers. I've never shot a suppressed .22 pistol before-just rifle, but the first round pop was significant and and it seemed kind of loud to me. I then drilled out the mouseholes and tried it. All I can say is GROOOOVY! After a few little test firings I can sometimes tell that there is a little first round pop, and other times I don't think there was any. In the end I'm very pleased with it. I really want to compare it next to a commercial can and see how it does.

For anyone thinking of using this design, here are some watchouts I've come across:
--If you thin it out as much as I did with .050-.060" walls, don't plan on putting any large side to side forces on it. If you put the tube on one end as a lever you can begin to feel some flex in the stack.
--With that in mind, I didn't really design in any good take-down features. Instead, i'm going to have to keep the threads and tube ID well lubed with anti-seize and semi-dissassemble it every 50-100 rounds to make sure it doesn't seize up.
--The O-rings actually work. Without them there were gasses sneaking out.

And now for some pics:

It's not as visible as I hoped in the pictures, but most of the gases hit below the exit hole and are vectored up and outward. The primary flow of the gases is coming downward from 1st chamber and then is splashed upward in the 2nd across the exit hole. Stuff is then slowing down and getting deposited on the top and back wall of the chambers. There are also crescent moon shapes of black deposits on the wall of the tubing where it meets up with the back top portion of the chambers. You can see this when you take it apart and look down the inside of the tube.

Image


This is really cool. The end cap chamber has a large deposit of stuff on one side but not the other. This lines up across from the bottom of the last circular chamber. This means that it is directing the gasses up very well accross the bore path. Very cool. My design-fu is feeling strong.

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Here's a view of the mouse holes since I didn't post this last time. The primary chamber got access to two of them, while the last chamber didn't get any. Gotta have priorities, you know?

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Enough of this. I'm off to the range.
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Post by st33ve0 »

Very well done Tmag! You may have convinced me to do a monobaffle instead of the K baffles I was thinking about...I shall have to ponder this now...

Can you show us a top shot for the placement of the mouse holes?
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