question..
a mono stack with out a out tube is a big muzzle brake...
couldnt you have a few multi cal. big muzzle breaks and 1 registered tube?...
you may say "any part of a can IS the can", but a QD muzzle brake "is part" of a can, yet you can have more then 1 since ATF says its not "part" of the can?.
what does it matter if your QD is 3" long or 8" long..
multi core, multi cal. mono's and 1 tube?
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- Silent But Deadly
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I think it would be easy for ATF to show intent. That intent + the ability + all parts on hand to make multiple silencers = conviction. You obviously know what the law is, stupid as it is, I don't think ATF would consider this a loop hole, I think they would consider it a violation.
This message has been approved by #93
i was going to post this same topic.
if you have one supressor but you can take it apart and put different parts in it it is still one supressor. you are just changing the internal parts of it.
I kinda related it to SBRs. you can put multi cal. on your form 1 and you can put various uppers on it.
for automatic weapons sometimes the sear is the registered part. for the silencer you could havethe tube and endcaops be the registered parts and you can swap out the guts.
another thing to think about. if you have a .45 can can you make a new (different design) stack and put it in the old tube? its similar to the topic at hand.
can you posess a completed stack (w/o a form 1 or 4) if you dont have any other parts for a can?
if you have one supressor but you can take it apart and put different parts in it it is still one supressor. you are just changing the internal parts of it.
I kinda related it to SBRs. you can put multi cal. on your form 1 and you can put various uppers on it.
for automatic weapons sometimes the sear is the registered part. for the silencer you could havethe tube and endcaops be the registered parts and you can swap out the guts.
another thing to think about. if you have a .45 can can you make a new (different design) stack and put it in the old tube? its similar to the topic at hand.
can you posess a completed stack (w/o a form 1 or 4) if you dont have any other parts for a can?
but you dont have all the parts to make multiple silencers. you have the parts to make one. once that one is made you dont have enought parts to make another. you have one silencer that is registered and then you have extra parts for that silencer.That intent + the ability + all parts on hand to make multiple silencers = conviction.
ATF says each baffle in and of itself is a new silencer, so you can't have interchangeable stacks on one tax. You also cannot have extra parts on hand for a silencer. They addressed all of this in one of their FAQs.
Yes, it's stupid. Yes, I hate it too. However, that's what the ATF says, and in my ongoing effort not to have to call a 300 pound cellmate "Daddy" every evening, I'm going to play by their rules.
Risk: dignity, a number of years of your life, thousands upon thousands of dollars, future employment that does not involve fast food
Payoff: Having 2 cans for the tax of one
Yes, it's stupid. Yes, I hate it too. However, that's what the ATF says, and in my ongoing effort not to have to call a 300 pound cellmate "Daddy" every evening, I'm going to play by their rules.
You can, you just might be convicted for it. You could possibly win the case, but IIRC the ATF has already successfully gotten people on constructive intent for much less than something that could be a baffle stack. It really isn't worth dancing in and out of the gray area.can you posess a completed stack (w/o a form 1 or 4) if you dont have any other parts for a can?
Risk: dignity, a number of years of your life, thousands upon thousands of dollars, future employment that does not involve fast food
Payoff: Having 2 cans for the tax of one
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/nfa/041708silencer_faqs.htm
[/quote]Q5: May a repair change the dimensions or caliber of a silencer?
A: If alterations to a silencer would increase the overall length or change the diameter or caliber of a silencer, this is the making of a new silencer, as opposed to a repair. The new silencer must be registered and transferred in accordance with the NFA and the GCA. Alterations to a registered silencer that result in a minimal reduction in the overall length for purposes of rethreading are permissible as repairs. However, the reduction in length may not result in the removal, obliteration, or alteration of the existing serial number, as this would violate 18 U.S.C. § 922(k). If such a repair is necessary, the damaged silencer should be destroyed or returned to the registrant. If it is destroyed, destruction should be reported to the NFA Branch. Any replacement silencer must be registered and transferred in accordance with the NFA and the GCA. See Q2 and Q3 for further information on repairs.
In the event that identical replacement parts for a silencer are not available, new and different component parts may be used as long as the silencer retains the same dimensions and caliber.
My Integeral can from SRT has 9mm/44/45 on it and on the formjmorris wrote:If I understand correctly caliber is one of the things that has to be engraved and I can’t see them allowing .22/.30/.355/.45.
with tax stamp.
.
Last edited by redtazdog on Sun Dec 07, 2008 10:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
look the simple fact is do not try to skirt the law. it is not worth going to jail to save a few bucks. i am a former federal law enforcement officer. i have been in court many times and have seen good people go to jail for doing something stupid. by the way, the feds read these posts. now they know you already have intent. it may seem stupid but you have to play the game by their rules. besides collecting cans is fun.
The "multi" rule for SBR's is also NOT OK. I was told both ways so I called and asked. I actually called twice and got the same answer from seperate people.
You must register it as one caliber and mark it as such. When you get approval you then send them a letter saying you also wish to use XXXX on SBR XX and they will send you an amendment authorizing your addition uppers/barrels.
I even mentioned the point of buying a lower that is factory marked as multi and that also has no impact.
(flame retardant)I didn't ask for the maybe, well if, or history on the decision since this is my first SBR none of it mattered to me.
You must register it as one caliber and mark it as such. When you get approval you then send them a letter saying you also wish to use XXXX on SBR XX and they will send you an amendment authorizing your addition uppers/barrels.
I even mentioned the point of buying a lower that is factory marked as multi and that also has no impact.
(flame retardant)I didn't ask for the maybe, well if, or history on the decision since this is my first SBR none of it mattered to me.
- Selectedmarksman
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I think we've seen that the ATF doesn't really care about the letter of the law, it makes things up as it goes to enforce what they 'feel' is the 'spirit' of the law (Akins device for example). Even if it were 'technically' legal I wouldn't trust the ATF to not come down on you through a new 'interpretation.'
kind of lame and not ideal, but can you have lets say a can designed for 45acp, then have the same threads on a 9mm or 40 and use it on those firearms? The volume wouldnt be ideal and the hole diameter would be substantially larger than it should be but it would still kind of work. You arent changing any parts but I doubt they would let you do that. Also what about if you were using 45acp and 45 long colt? Would that have to be registered differently?
.BKE520 wrote:kind of lame and not ideal, but can you have lets say a can designed for 45acp, then have the same threads on a 9mm or 40 and use it on those firearms? The volume wouldnt be ideal and the hole diameter would be substantially larger than it should be but it would still kind of work. You arent changing any parts but I doubt they would let you do that. Also what about if you were using 45acp and 45 long colt? Would that have to be registered differently?
I use my AAC 762sd on 223/6.5mm/300whisper/308
I am guessing its just a can that is sized to accept the largest round and marked for smaller ones as well. is that correct?redtazdog wrote:My Integeral can from SRT has 9mm/44/45 on it and on the formjmorris wrote:If I understand correctly caliber is one of the things that has to be engraved and I can’t see them allowing .22/.30/.355/.45.
with tax stamp.
.
same thing as having a 50BMG can also marked for .22lr
I dont think anyone is trying to do anything tricky to skirt the law. we are just trying to find out if an interesting idea follows the law.look the simple fact is do not try to skirt the law. it is not worth going to jail to save a few bucks. i am a former federal law enforcement officer. i have been in court many times and have seen good people go to jail for doing something stupid. by the way, the feds read these posts. now they know you already have intent. it may seem stupid but you have to play the game by their rules. besides collecting cans is fun.
Before leraning some info that pretty much shoots down the idea I was thinking about submitting a form 1 for a multical can and listing that it would have multiple baffle stacks. It couldnt hurt to see what they say.
.aggiez28 wrote:I am guessing its just a can that is sized to accept the largest round and marked for smaller ones as well. is that correct?redtazdog wrote:My Integeral can from SRT has 9mm/44/45 on it and on the formjmorris wrote:If I understand correctly caliber is one of the things that has to be engraved and I can’t see them allowing .22/.30/.355/.45.
with tax stamp.
.
same thing as having a 50BMG can also marked for .22lr
Doug at SRT uses the same tubes for 9mm/44/45 then he uses the
baffles and endcaps that are needed for the caliber of the build.
He can use 1 outer tube to make any 35cal,44cal and 45cal cartriges like
45acp, 45Longcolt, 458socom, 450bushmaster, 45/70.
I dont think they are trying to skirt the law, maybe learn the law.volkstech wrote:look the simple fact is do not try to skirt the law. it is not worth going to jail to save a few bucks. i am a former federal law enforcement officer. i have been in court many times and have seen good people go to jail for doing something stupid. by the way, the feds read these posts. now they know you already have intent. it may seem stupid but you have to play the game by their rules. besides collecting cans is fun.
Many membes on this board are law enforcement and are
still learning the rules of a can build themselves.
Re: multi core, multi cal. mono's and 1 tube?
i posted this is 2008, now,2015, i find it funny that you can buy these "brakes"
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- L1A1Rocker
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Re: multi core, multi cal. mono's and 1 tube?
I think Sig is evolved in a lawsuit against the ATF right now on that very topic.Ring wrote:
what does it matter if your QD is 3" long or 8" long..
Specifically, ATF said this is a silencer part and illegal. Sig says it's a muzzle brake.
Re: multi core, multi cal. mono's and 1 tube?
yes, the suit is on hold till aug. from last i read...