casting baffles

SRM · Post by **SRM** » Sat May 01, 2010 12:48 pm

Dont know if its been done but wouldnt casting parts be easier than machining them, tooling is spendy. Cast and grind to fit seems rather cost efective! Stainless, Aluminum, Titanium ( not sure about ) and carbon steel , even bronze. Any thoughts on the matter?

CKOD · Post by **CKOD** » Sat May 01, 2010 1:36 pm

B&T and possibly KAC (not 100% sure about kac, could be wrong) use cast baffles for their .45 ACP can.

Sigproshooter · Post by **Sigproshooter** » Sat May 01, 2010 2:43 pm

KAC does use cast baffles

Machine Gun Matt · Post by **Machine Gun Matt** » Sat May 01, 2010 4:50 pm

If I remember SRT Arms has/does as well.

YourCoWorker · Post by **YourCoWorker** » Sat May 01, 2010 5:42 pm

When you cast a part, you must include draft on all sufaces; the tool has an ejector half and a cover half. A reasonable draft is 1 degree, though at least 3 degrees is common. Adding this draft compromises what would otherwise be an optimal design.

The as cast part will be really cheap, per part, but if machining is required, that adds to the price.

The casting will be less dense than a billet part made with a wire EDM process.

You can't die cast steel, aluminum die castings are common. The most common die cast aluminum alloy is 380. Compare the properties to 6061-T6 on www.matweb.com

GlockBuyer · Post by **GlockBuyer** » Sat May 01, 2010 9:20 pm

There is no way casting would be cheaper or easier or faster. I worked in a Foundry and it's a nasty business........

Machining is virtually automatic, fast, efficient and stronger. Sure you have to invest in equipment, but once you have it - then all you have to do is push a button or two.........

CKOD · Post by **CKOD** » Sat May 01, 2010 11:40 pm

GlockBuyer wrote:There is no way casting would be cheaper or easier or faster. I worked in a Foundry and it's a nasty business........

Machining is virtually automatic, fast, efficient and stronger. Sure you have to invest in equipment, but once you have it - then all you have to do is push a button or two.........

I'm sure ruger casts 10/22 recievers because its cheaper then machining, and it seems like the KAC baffle would be a good candidate for casting, deep narrow pockets that would cause chatter if they were trying to mill it, esp in stainless like that, vs just turning the OD and the bore on an investment cast part.

Fulmen · Post by **Fulmen** » Sun May 02, 2010 6:02 am

GlockBuyer wrote:There is no way casting would be cheaper or easier or faster. I worked in a Foundry and it's a nasty business........

Sure, but that's your problem. All I have to do is order 1000 pieces and pay you

Machining is virtually automatic, fast, efficient and stronger. Sure you have to invest in equipment, but once you have it - then all you have to do is push a button or two.........

It's never that simple. The investment has to pay off, so you need to produce parts worth xxx bucks a week. Churning out baffles might not be your best use of an expensive mill.

It all boils down to volumes, casting might be cheap but the setup can be expensive. If you produce small volumes and frequent changes machining will probably be cheaper and simpler, but if you're going to need 100'000 parts casting suddenly becomes an option.

CKOD · Post by **CKOD** » Sun May 02, 2010 1:18 pm

Interesting... this guy casts his own keyboard and mouse parts from stainless.

http://forums.bit-tech.net/showthread.p ... 958&page=2
http://forums.bit-tech.net/showthread.php?t=125168

mactool · Post by **mactool** » Mon May 03, 2010 9:26 am

With a bit of work you can make a investment cast reproductive setup.
ON your prototype you must determine the parting line(s). Then make the appropiate mold halfes, or more. Thats the mold.
To make it easyer, you make molds of the mold halfes. now you can mold the mold in the future.
The mold itseld is made of plaster, whivh will be destroyed when you demold the item

jlwilliams · Post by **jlwilliams** » Mon May 03, 2010 6:13 pm

There are a few different casting processes, some easier than others. Sand casting and investment casting are both 'casting', but they aren't quite the same from a practical point of view.

I think if you're talking about making a form 1 can or two, then casting probably wouldn't really save time or money over machining them. If, on the other hand, you are making silencers on the scale that Ruger makes 10-22s, well that's a different matter. The expense of making the sort of tools it takes to do real precision castings, divided by a zillion, equals a pretty inexpensive cost per part. (you can check my math on that, but anything divided by an imaginary big number= a little, I think

)

Imagine making and selling as many of anything as Ruger does of 10-22s. You have to think that the tooling costs are amortized out to the point where a 10-22 is a pretty profitable product. They sell quite a few at $150 to $200 (I think). That sounds like good work if you can get it.

SRM · Post by **SRM** » Thu May 06, 2010 9:19 pm

CKOD wrote:Interesting... this guy casts his own keyboard and mouse parts from stainless.

http://forums.bit-tech.net/showthread.p ... 958&page=2
http://forums.bit-tech.net/showthread.php?t=125168

Im a machinist by trade. When I get a ciool idea I can build it. Just a way to think outa the box ya know. Parts like the ones in the links above would be realy dificult to make by hand. Keep moving forward. Just think what will be when someone figures out how to print with metals.

tylermtech · Post by **tylermtech** » Fri May 07, 2010 9:53 am

SRM wrote:
CKOD wrote:Interesting... this guy casts his own keyboard and mouse parts from stainless.

http://forums.bit-tech.net/showthread.p ... 958&page=2
http://forums.bit-tech.net/showthread.php?t=125168
Im a machinist by trade. When I get a ciool idea I can build it. Just a way to think outa the box ya know. Parts like the ones in the links above would be realy dificult to make by hand. Keep moving forward. Just think what will be when someone figures out how to print with metals.

Already done, they have rapid prototype machines that will do it. Fine powdered metal it deposited, and then sintered to make the final product strong.

mg81 · Post by **mg81** » Fri May 07, 2010 10:56 am

There are some zinc alloys that are on par with cast iron for strength, certainly many good aluminum alloys as well that all cast at a relatively low temperature and can be done in a home/small shop environment casting into green sand molds. Even some silicon/rubber/RTV molds are able to hold up to zinc temperatures.

Starting with a casting can be a great way to get shape most of the way done, often to the point that hand tools can finish off the work.

Relatively speaking it is very easy to make a pattern that a mold can be made from: wood, plastic, wax, some types of foam are all possibilities. These materials are easy to work without big/expensive tools. With these patterns you can find many different foundries that are willing to cast your pattern, they often cater to the art community if you are looking for one.

Just make sure to find out what they want your pattern to be made out of before you spend much time making one. Different metals and casting processes

Yes, you will pay a premium for a small run, but so what. If you want to try a limited run or even an a one off prototype, it may be worth it.

SRM · Post by **SRM** » Fri May 07, 2010 9:18 pm

Well, when it comes to suppressor parts as we all know, ATF wont go for other people making parts for you. so all will have to be done in-house. I`m way better at running a machine than I am at this keyboard! Anyhow, the matals for cans must be tough. Dont know if thats in the works. We all should keep our eyes open for this later as I see doors opening for metal printing. It would be cool to have a printed silencer of 440c hardened to about 55 rc.