Patent Issues, get sued or get rich?:D

[600]

Hi everyone! I've read alot in this forum regarding patent/poorman's patent and after all that reading I still can't find the answer, so I think this is my first post.

Here it goes, hope you guys out there can answer some of it.

1. I'm going to start making some suppressors for 22 cal. What I was wondering is this...how do I know if my design are already taken and patented BEFORE I release my suppressor and get sued for a million?!

2. Second, as far as I know the design I've come up with does not exist, but you can never be too sure, especially if the risk is like a million in law suit!

3. Thirdly, I just do NOT understand how the patent rules are. I mean if there is a pat. pending for AAC Prodigy how come YHM has their Mite??? I, except for the mouse holes, they damn look identical to me! No patent violation here?

4. Also, I'm in Europe. As far as I know in europe the patent office tells me that Patent can only be granted if the product is a "break through" but since suppressor already exist I find it very hard to take a patent at all! How come there are so many patent inside the US for the same product?? Other rules for patent in US?

5. This is the last question, is these patent I've been crossing on the net regarding various designs, are they only valid inside US or are they international patents?

Hope you guys can help with this question. This little project is just a hobby, selling a few to some friends, but I surely don't want end up getting a law suit chasing me.

[600]

...sorry for the bad english. Not very good at it.

Hope its understandable.

[delta9mda]

one way people do it is draw it and mail it to yourself and dont open the envelop. it will be date stamped. not sure how this holds up legally.

[Wicked]

It does not.

[PaulNoiseLess]

Hi,

Just go ahead and don't talk too much about it !

You better go "sorry" than "please" ...

Best,

Paul

[jlwilliams]

OK, this is an area where I can put in something constructive.

First best place for information on how the US patent system works is the USPTO (US Patent and Trademark Office) They put out an outstandig free publication titled something to ther effect of "Understanding Patents and Trademarks". It also has some useful information on Copyrights. I understand that you are in Europe, but the US booklet will be emensely helpful in understanding the nuts and bolts of the system. Europe's patent law is different in some respects, but there is more in common than there is different. There may be an EU comparable publication, but if so I'm unaware of it. The booklet is written in surprisigly ckear language. There are also plenty of books on the subject. I like Nolo Press for layman's legal books.

Google patents is a good place to start doing a rudimentary patent search for yourself. Try to see if what you want to do is already patented. Reading patents can give you a brain cramp. They are written in obtuse language all of there own. Just do your best to try and find if your idea is alredy patented. If not, pick those items that seem kind of close and take the time to write out why your idea is different.

THIS PART IS IMPORTANT Once you have done your best patent search for yourself, if you still think your idea may be patentable and worth the money to do so: hire a professional. Get a patent lawyer involved. Having done your best will give a professional a solid place to start. These guys aren't cheap so you want to save them as much time as possable by doing what you can for yourself. Starting with the books and gaining an understanding of the process will be well worth it.

Lastly; Don't let fear that someone else may have already had your idea make you give up. If you find that it's been done, fine. Move on. Maybe you think of something that makes it better, maybe you just do something completely different. If you do your homework and find it's clear, then go into manufacture, and then later you find that you were wrong and it was someone elses property doesn't mean instant million dollar law suit against you. If you make an honest best attempt to not infringe the most likely course of action for a patent owner would be to get a cease and desist order. Not many courts will grant damages if you can show that you were acting in good faith. Where you see big dollar suits is where there is a clear intent to screw someone out of their intelectual property. If you are working under the understanding that you are not harming anybody and later find that you have infringed, and stop when you find that out - you would be acting in good faith. Plaintif's lawyers know that there is little likelyhood of a big award in a case like that. If you stop infringing as soon as you become aware you are in the wrong (and offer to show that you did a search and just plain missed their claim) there won't be much point in going to court to persue an award that isn't there. End of story.

Back to step one. You mentioned that you are not familiar with the patent rules. Your first step needs to be to get familiar with them. You don't need to go to law school, you just need to read up a bit.

Good luck.

[600]

Sounds good.I will begin with USPTO.

BTW are you guys in US able to purchase european products over sea? Or are there really heavy restrictions on these items?

[CThomas]

Sounds good.I will begin with USPTO.
BTW are you guys in US able to purchase european products over sea? Or are there really heavy restrictions on these items?

No, suppressors cannot be imported for sale to individuals.

[Bendersquint]

I mean if there is a pat. pending for AAC Prodigy how come YHM has their Mite??? I, except for the mouse holes, they damn look identical to me! No patent violation here?

If you can't see how different those 2 designs are you really need to spend more time looking at the pictures and the patents. There are a TON of differences between the 2 patents.

Good luck on discovering a break through for getting the EU Patent. Its a nightmare and very rarely does anything qualify enough to allow a patent.

In the US we can get patents for 'ornamental' features. Like AAC paid for the patent to have the stepped exterior of the can. So noone is supposed to make a can that the exterior looks like an AAC M42K or Cyclone etc....

US patents generally don't apply to the EU or anywhere else and vice versa.

You be in EU and getting a patent in the US will do little for you unless you have someone build the cans over here, if you aren't doing anything with it you just hurt people over here. Why keep others from making it if you aren't benefiting from it?

-B

[Armorer-at-Law]

Sorry I didn't join this thread earlier. I was away for a few days...

I am a US patent attorney. I would be happy to answer as many questions as I can. Send me an email (contact info at www.Armorer-at-Law.com). I will correspond by e-mail or we could set up a time to talk via Skype.

Except for the part about mailing a disclosure to yourself, the informaion above is generally accurate.

Patents are territorial, meaning they only affect the country from which they were issued for infringement purposes (until expired). Patents, or any other printed publication, may be universal for purposes of limiting what can later be patented. That is, something that is in the public domain cannot be taken out of the public domain by a later patent.

So, searching US patents at uspto.gov or Google Patents will give you some idea as to whether your design may be patentable, even though a US patent will not limit what you can make or sell in another country. European patents can be searched at http://www.epo.org/searching/free/espacenet.html.

The question of whether your design is covered by claims of an unexpired patent is a more complicated analysis.

[PaulNoiseLess]

Hi,

You can’t Export Suppressors to USA (¿?¿?¿ - to be discussed) but you can Export to USA the Parts to assembly a Suppressor there according to their Laws.

Best,

Paul

[Bendersquint]

Hi,

You can’t Export Suppressors to USA (¿?¿?¿ - to be discussed) but you can Export to USA the Parts to assembly a Suppressor there according to their Laws.

Best,

Paul

No you can't export the parts to the USA to assemble a suppressor. Individuals can't buy suppressor parts.

Only way this is valid is if you were exporting tubing cut to length(not threaded) and chunks of metal bar stock to be turned on a machine for the remaining parts.

Paul, I would love to see the laws stating we can import suppressor parts.

-B

[PaulNoiseLess]

Hi,

Bendersquint:

And ... I would love to see the laws where Suppressor's Parts are defined: Any machined part can become a Suppressor's Part, like freeze plugs, fender washers, and so on ....

Are those forbidden in USA ?

Any way ...

I understand market protection and I do really congratulate you on that ... but ...

Why is that in Suppressors and not in Cars (Guns ?) or 90% of the other stuff (made in China or Japan or Korea or Taiwan ...) ?

Management by fear is not a good practice in the long run.

Best,

Paul

[silverbulletexpress]

I'm no attorney but in my experience a patent is useless unless you have more money than whoever is violating your patent. In other words it's up to you to defend your patent, if the other guy has more money to spend your patent may be worthless.

[Historian]

600, patent attorney stated that a patent "gives you the right to sue,
it does not prevent predatory copying".

Similar to the fallacy that more gun confiscation,
or as incorrectly framed by Diane Feinstein, gun "control" laws will
hinder a criminal's access to weapons.

But, at least patents are impressive when they are
framed and on your wall.