Newbie ... thinkin' about it

[eastern_hunter]

Guys,

Am about out of big monies to play with commercial suppressors. As I have much more time than money there might be a Form 1 build in the future. Conceivably could make three for the price of a commercial suppressor. Have some basic questions abt doing one though.

Legal questions:

1) What is the registered (build approved) part? The tube? The internals? The entire assembly?

2) Any problem getting a Form 1 approved for a Trust?

3) If you do a build and need or want to replace or upgrade the internals must you first destroy the old internals so that you are not creating extra parts that could be in violation of your approval the manufacture one suppressor?

4) How do you guys do the marking of the tube? Is there a service that will do the engraving for you?

5) I assume it is inappropriate to even acquire the basic materials (especially the tube) until one has an approved Form 1 in hand. True?

6) What dimensions are required on a Form 1 that must be met in the finished project? In other words, how complete must your design be prior to requesting permission to manufacture by Form 1?

Tooling/equipment

1) From previous posts I notice that there are folks with a wide range of shop situations. I have a full sized Jet mill with a DRO, and a 13x40 lathe with a 6 jaw Set True chuck that works pretty well. Have some extra table equipment for the mill such as an indexer, a rotary table, and good boring/facing head. I think that is enough gear to start playing if I had an approved Form 1 in hand.

2) Can do heat treating in computer controlled salt pots ... so something like 17-PH4 is not out of the question.

Biggest challenges

I think that making accurate threads for the tube and end fittings will likely be the biggest challenge. These things need to be very precise? Internal threads by tap good enough?

Thanks fellas!

[Hatchetjoe]

How does one heat treat 17-PH4?

[eastern_hunter]

See: http://www.sandmeyersteel.com/17-4PH.html

We have two pots ... both computer controlled. The hot side can go as hot as 2100F and the cold side of 1100F. Cooling profiles can be controlled if needed.

[JimmyB]

I’ve built a few Form 1s

Answers to questions;

1) All of it
2) All of my Form 1s and Form 4s are on a Trust. The same with many other people. No problem
3)
4) Call engravers in the phonebook. Most just do trophies and such, others can only do flat surface engraving. Make sure you ask the engraver if he can do cylinders and .003 deep engraving
5) No way!! My shop as well as yours has plenty of stock. A suppressor is a tube with metal stuff in it
Any good shop will have tons of inventory to build just about anything
6) You will put the dimensions of your suppressor on your Form 1. You will get these dimension from your drawings. Just my opinion, add ¼ inch to your planned design and put this number on your Form 1 application. If your build comes out a little longer than expected, you’re covered.



how complete must your design be prior to requesting permission to manufacture by Form 1?
You should have length, diameter and caliber figured out when you finish your drawings

The truth is, you can fill out a Form 1 right now. Make the length 7”, diameter 1.5” and whatever caliber. No plans are submitted with a Form 1




Biggest challenges?

I would TIG weld instead of threading if it were me. With the shop you have, if you don’t have a TIG, you should get one. Threading a tube for such high pressure isn’t a great idea and certainly not worth it for a first Form 1

[Hatchetjoe]

I'm thinking of buying some that is pre heat treated and doing a form 1 on an AAC element clone, however I will use a 304 Tube so I can use the dip to clean it.
Thanks for the link.

[daviscustom]

Looking at the specs,(I have no experience with this alloy) it doesn't look like the best choice considering the preferred max temperature for use.....depending on your rate of fire of course..... you could easily surpass that doing a mag dump.

Jimmy you are bass-akwards it's a form 1 when you built your own and a form 4 when you buy a commercial can.

Diameter is not asked for on a form 1.

[eastern_hunter]

Anyone comment on the legality of recoring one that you've built on a Form 1 after it has been used for a while?

Am sure that one's understanding of what works and how to make things improves significantly by doing the work.

Not interested in building high pressure rifle cans. But in 22 lr to 9mm including 300 WTF cans that can be disassembled.

[JimmyB]

daviscustom

Damn, you’re right. I have a number of Form1s and Form 4s. All my guns, cans, equipment, etc.. are moved into storage because of possible flooding. There’s no way I could verify with paperwork.
Are you sure diameter isn’t needed? I ’m certain I always include diameter


eastern-hunter

Damn again, I should have asked what kind of can you plan on building
22 cans? Been there done that quite a few times. Why didn’t you say so? What type- mono-core or baffle- do you plan on making?

Monos are a bitch to make quite but something along the lines of the Sparrow will work. Mono-cores are very easy to clean. Just right for something as dirty as a 22lr. Also, one tends to shoot much more 22s than center fire



Question #3
Your question about legalities concerning can repair/rebuild
I will give no opinion on the internet about such things
Cans don’t wear that hard especially 22 cans. Build a good one and it will last, probably longer than you

[eastern_hunter]

Jimmy,

Thank you ... I understand. Was asking because I do not want to run afoul of anything in the future.

Not sure what kind of can I may try in the future. Just in the beginning phases of reading. I do like the K and Omega baffle systems as they seem elegant and also seem to have a reputation for being quiet. I May be a good enough machinist to make them ... but that is not in evidence yet and can't be until I have an approved Form 1.

Thanks again.

Mike

[daviscustom]

Jimmy I got my form 1 out to check and there is no space for diameter.....unless the form has changed since 09.

[Capt. Link.]

Eastern hunter I'm not that far away can your company do Austempering on 4130-4150 I have the need.send pm.

[bakerjw]

Anyone comment on the legality of recoring one that you've built on a Form 1 after it has been used for a while?

According to everything that I've read the Form 1 is a one shot deal. You can't legally build another set of baffles and swap them out. This doesn't mean that it doesn't happen but if it does then I'd say that it isn't publicized.

[ranb]

An unlicensed maker can not replace any parts (except wipes) unless another $200 tax is paid. If you need internals replaced without another tax, then the can has to be sent to a class 2 for parts replacement. Even a class 2 can not lengthen the can or change the bore. Make it right the first time, do not overheat it or mount it crooked and it should last a long time.

Ranb

[eastern_hunter]

Ranb,

That was the answer that I thought I might get ... and hoped I wouldn't. But as they say "It is what it is," and one has to understand it.

Thank you!