5.56 Form 1 completed

Yes, it can be legal to make a silencer. For everything Form-1, from silencer designs that are easily made, to filing forms with the BATF, to 3D modeling. Remember, you must have an approved BATF Form-1 to make a silencer. All NFA laws apply.

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tom_penn01
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5.56 Form 1 completed

Post by tom_penn01 » Wed Aug 03, 2011 5:02 pm

Ive lurked around this site for about 2 years now researching and have finally completed my first (but not last) form 1. This site has been so helpful especially during the paperwork so I feel compelled to share my success with the community . So I received this design several months ago from the one and only Paulnoiseless and must say am very satisfied with the results! This is my first post so if the pictures dont show up someone please help me out!

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Last edited by tom_penn01 on Thu Aug 04, 2011 5:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 5.56 Form 1 completed

Post by CThomas » Wed Aug 03, 2011 6:13 pm

Now that is a first post, a completed form 1 can, nice
Larger/clearer picture of internals please :wink:
Are those external threads I see on the tube?
Curious why you went that route?
Specs?
The tube has an Element style to it

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Re: 5.56 Form 1 completed

Post by tom_penn01 » Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:13 pm

I asked Paul the same thing about the threads and he said they make the tube stronger which makes sense. Also you get maximum volume. I didnt think I would like the look at first but after machining it they grew on me. The tube is 8.175 inches long with 1.5 id. Ill have to ask Paul if he will let me disclose cone and spacer dimensions.

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Wicked
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Re: 5.56 Form 1 completed

Post by Wicked » Thu Aug 04, 2011 12:23 pm

Good work; very nicely done. BZ


What does it weigh? What type of steel did you use?
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Re: 5.56 Form 1 completed

Post by PaulNoiseLess » Thu Aug 04, 2011 12:45 pm

Hi Tom,

This design come from my last “Call for Machinists”. Tom has been one of the few giving me some feedback on the build. So, I really thanks you !

Yes, go ahead and post as much details as you wish (It’s your Can, you know …). We don’t see many Form 1 builds over here so it’s going to be nice to know more about your Can.

Also, please, take a Video so we can enjoy the sound.

Best and congratulations,

Paul
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Re: 5.56 Form 1 completed

Post by delta9mda » Thu Aug 04, 2011 12:49 pm

this can was done in 308 too by another member here. all im saying.
Last edited by delta9mda on Fri Aug 05, 2011 10:33 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 5.56 Form 1 completed

Post by PaulNoiseLess » Thu Aug 04, 2011 1:10 pm

Hi,

There are many variations on Stepped Cones Cans. Of course, I’m not the Inventor and don’t try to be. It’s like Freeze Expansion Plugs, we all know who the Mentor is (subsonic) or K-Baffles with the Finish guys or Omega Baffles, or …

Beside I just don’t fucking care about what you say, clean up your glasses: This one is not even close to the one you mention.

This is a good build and the builder (OP) merits some respect on it, so don’t come to this Post bullshitting or looking for troubles.

If you want to tell me something, just tell to me but don’t F--k others with your attitude.

Kisses,

Paul
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Re: 5.56 Form 1 completed

Post by Capt. Link. » Thu Aug 04, 2011 2:56 pm

Good looking build congrats.Please post any details and more pictures I do hope the claw hammer is not a normal tool for you, as a Gunsmith I get a little twitchy when I see one with any firearm.
Paul don't be so defensive at least your helping and not sniping at every body. :mrgreen:
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Re: 5.56 Form 1 completed

Post by PaulNoiseLess » Thu Aug 04, 2011 5:46 pm

Hi,

Yes, you are right. It’s boring to feed the Monkeys so no more Peanuts for now.

Let's wait for OP to Post details. There are 2 details in this Can - the extra volume due to external threading for the Caps and the Baffles being 60º Cones with channels around to maximize Coanda effect – that I wanted to test at the time a did the “Call for Machinists ..”. There is also one detail that couldn’t be tested: 100% floating Core to allow gas to have “on demand” room for expansion. The Can was too fat (1.95 OD) so we did scarify this one to take the Can to 1.5 OD.

So, let wait for Tom to Post some more details on the final built. I just have the original design.

Best,

Paul
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Re: 5.56 Form 1 completed

Post by tom_penn01 » Thu Aug 04, 2011 6:24 pm

I fixed the tiny picture, I wasnt aware it was like that. The tube, endcaps, blast and first baffle are all 304 stainless while the rest is aluminum. It weighs 22.1oz but should weigh a slight bit less once i put the cut outs on the front cap that mimic the surefire mini monster. I am also planning on putting a bolt hole circle on the rear cap for a spanner wrench. As far as dimensions are concerned, the blast baffle is 2.5" long .717 OD with five .25" slots equally spaced. The cones are 60 degree 1.225"long with three equally spaced .108 shoulders. The spacers are 1.375" at the largest diameter and fit into a recess in the front of the cones. Length of these are .733" with three .4x.6 equally spaced slots. Ah I almost forgot, the bore is .25 through and through. If anyone wants more detail Ill just take measurements in the video when I film it. Im glad you guys like it, im very happy with it myself! Thats funny I didnt even realize the hammer was in the photo until you mentioned it! I love that rifle too much to beat it with a hammer!
Heres two more photos kinda blurry

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Re: 5.56 Form 1 completed

Post by delta9mda » Fri Aug 05, 2011 12:28 am

PaulNoiseLess wrote:Hi,

There are many variations on Stepped Cones Cans. Of course, I’m not the Inventor and don’t try to be. It’s like Freeze Expansion Plugs, we all know who the Mentor is (subsonic) or K-Baffles with the Finish guys or Omega Baffles, or …

Beside I just don’t fucking care about what you say, clean up your glasses: This one is not even close to the one you mention.

This is a good build and the builder (OP) merits some respect on it, so don’t come to this Post bullshitting or looking for troubles.

If you want to tell me something, just tell to me but don’t F--k others with your attitude.

Kisses,

Paul

change your tampon, its soaked. it doesnt matter all i said is it looks a lot like the 308 can that was done by a member here.

pull your panties out of your mangina.

it is a good build, nice work on the machining.
NP

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Re: 5.56 Form 1 completed

Post by Wicked » Fri Aug 05, 2011 8:54 am

This is the 2nd professional looking 5.56 Form 1 can I've seen recently that used a .250" bore all the way down the tube. The other belongs to zevdogs. Both the suppressors are very nicely done and the machining looks great. No doubt they're concentrically built cans.

That said, I'm still not in favor of extremely tight bores. In the search for better performance, be careful about giving up too much safety margin. There's a reason the commercial builders don't use 1/4" bores; they don't want to warranty blown up cans. I'm not concerned with the construction of the suppressor. It's more the barrel, atmospheric and ammunition variables. Just because a can is built straight, doesn't mean every bullet flying down the it's bore will be also.

My personal opinion - .250" is extremely tight and risks potential strikes. Simply not enough room for error.


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Re: 5.56 Form 1 completed

Post by zevdogs » Fri Aug 05, 2011 10:28 am

Thanks for the complement .... I'm at over 4000 rounds now with many types of ammo with no problems, but I think a lot of my good luck is the titainum end I did on my barrel

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Re: 5.56 Form 1 completed

Post by tom_penn01 » Fri Aug 05, 2011 10:59 am

I understand there is a possibilty of a strike from a bullet that just isn't uniform, but wouldn't the largest concern be from negligence of the shooter from either not checking for keyholing first or unconcentric threads on the barrel? My rifle has a WOA 20in in 1:7 that stabilizes 55 to 80. I haven't been able to check my subsonic loads yet but be assured I wouldn't fire a round through it without checking the holes in the paper first. I guess I'm trying to say that the risk of a manufacturing flaw in a round is slim enough that it dosent weigh on my mind.

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Re: 5.56 Form 1 completed

Post by JasonM » Fri Aug 05, 2011 11:19 am

Interested to hear how the aluminum baffles (and spacers?) hold up...

overall looks good. Nice machining!
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Re: 5.56 Form 1 completed

Post by tom_penn01 » Fri Aug 05, 2011 6:48 pm

Does anyone have experience with 6061 al for .223 baffles? I'm interested to know myself

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Re: 5.56 Form 1 completed

Post by PaulNoiseLess » Fri Aug 05, 2011 7:26 pm

Hi,

As long as you go Tube, Caps, Blast and first 1 (or 2) Baffles SS, it’s going to be fine.

If you want longer live for them, just go 7075.

Finally, if you want Full-Auto or last for long time, SS is your friend.

Best,

Paul
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Re: 5.56 Form 1 completed

Post by dammitman » Fri Aug 05, 2011 7:46 pm

all :D i can say is man,,,nice, thanks for your help paul with mine as well.

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Re: 5.56 Form 1 completed

Post by kogashuko » Mon Aug 08, 2011 12:35 pm

Did you keep it serviceable? You you have any issues with the threads backing out on the tube or is there a screw of some sort tacking them down. This looks really nice and really cool way of making a serviceable can. I thought about external threads when it was mentioned in the other thread and didnt know how it would come together and look. But I have to say this looks really good.

What type of steel and machines did you use? Thanks and grats.

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Re: 5.56 Form 1 completed

Post by zevdogs » Mon Aug 08, 2011 3:28 pm

The only thing I don't like about outside threads on a can is they won't compress you baffles together and thus helping them to stay straight Inline with the barrel
It's possible that after a 1000 rounds your baffles could be squished enough to be .010 ore so shorter, wich would meen your bores on all the baffles could go off center

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Re: 5.56 Form 1 completed

Post by wolf » Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:39 pm

If his baffle stack is longer than the tube ,,well ,,then :wink:

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Re: 5.56 Form 1 completed

Post by PaulNoiseLess » Mon Aug 08, 2011 5:35 pm

Hi,

I always do External Threading Caps for all my Designs except for those for Custom Designs for the USA Market. USA Customers do not like external threading, there is no other reason as far as I remember than looking different (or ugly).

With regards to them being effective or not, they have their cons and pros (like any matter). I’ll just highlight one pro: You always have 1 extra inch (+-) of volume available and looking at the trend of compact Cans that’s a lot.

Agree with Wolf: with regards to Baffles compression, well; it’s a matter of design, you know …, if the Stack is not long enough, yes, you are done but this is the same for inner threading caps. My oldest Can is 17 years old know. We are hunters, not shooters but more than 7000 rounds for sure. No problems as of today.

BTW, for muzzle brake mounts, it gives you 1.65 inches more volume. That’s a trick, think about the Conical geometry of the Rear Cap.

Best,

Paul
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Re: 5.56 Form 1 completed

Post by este » Mon Aug 08, 2011 5:53 pm

F--k that Americans don't like it BS. External threading makes a ton of sense in this application. Internal threads are weaker, harder to machine, prone to getting gunked up and galled, harder to clean.

Looks pretty good for 22oz.

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Re: 5.56 Form 1 completed

Post by zevdogs » Mon Aug 08, 2011 6:14 pm

wolf wrote:If his baffle stack is longer than the tube ,,well ,,then :wink:
That's true but then the end caps should be bored out to be concentric wich is just a little harder but works just fine

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Re: 5.56 Form 1 completed

Post by PaulNoiseLess » Mon Aug 08, 2011 6:36 pm

Hi,

So, what do you do with your inner threaded Caps, bore them NOT to be concentric and they just align up by their own ?. Threads are threads, not matter where they are … like women, you know …

No, concentricity is not a matter of Internal vs. External. It’s just a matter of your machining (precision and tolerances), Design and how you want to finish the Bore in your Can. In terms of concentricity, you will ever have the same issue with internal caps and with externals. No differences.

Now, USA Customers (mine in general, there are exceptions) do not like this type of Cans because the way to finish the Rear Cap in a Conical way so there is some sort of Barrel-Cone-Flat they don’t like. That’s good and I do respect.

Best,

Paul
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